From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Thu Jul 12 2001 - 19:03:30 MDT
Amara writes
> To the hard-core deconstructionists out there, I suggest going out
> and playing music or dancing or using some other means to turn off
> your deconstructionalist tendencies. Please remember that we have
> different value systems, different 'true' and 'untrue', different
> experiences and so on.
I just can't agree that we have different "true" and "false"
and can just leave it like that. So long as I have time, in
Socrates' words, "it's not that your words triumph over time,
nor mine over yours, but that we find the truth". He didn't
say "but that you find your truth and I find mine".
> I don't agree that deconstructing the world
> with science yields all answers possible. There
> are other ways to learn and discover too.
Discover what? I can discover what makes me happy, or gives
me serene joy, or whatever. Those may or may not be scientific
truths. But generally, to *learn* something means to discover
what is true *about the world*. Now I'm not going to argue
about what "learn" means on top of everything else. If the
rational search for saying what's real about the world that
some of us engage in solely when we post to public lists isn't
always your cup of tea, that's understandable. Try to steer
clear, then, of discussions that are focused on trying to say
what's objectively and publicly true.
> Can you tell me that you know all that is in your subconscious?
No, not by the ordinary meaning of "you".
> Do you learn from everything you can of what's around you?
No, my attention is limited, alas, and much escapes me.
> Have you used every tool that seems useful in order to know?
What does that mean? Well, there are many search engines
that I haven't yet used. But I'm at a loss to know what
else you mean.
> Do you find joy and wonder and wisdom in what's around you?
At some times; not at others.
> Lee was originally asking questions for definitions, so I did my
> absolute best to find words (which mostly don't exist) to explain
> some perspectives.
And I'm sorry that I did not have time to fully deal with
what you wrote---there's one concrete example of having
failed to learn "everything I could from what is around me".
> ... but I must say that I was horrified and very dissapointed to
> hear the immediate knee-jerk condemnations "False" that my way
> to try to see what was in my subconscious to gain wisdom, be
> open to learn from my environment, trying to bring me to a higher...
Well, unless you quote someone, he or she can't be sure of
what you speak. I did blatently use the word "false" in
some posts lately. I certainly was not talking about anything
that you wrote. I was discussing the belief systems that we
both disagree with---in terms of their strict claims. If someone
says that the Earth is flat, they are simply, quite, wrong. It
sure as hell is not that they have "their truth" and I have "my
truth".
> If my tools of discovery aren't your tools, then so what? I don't
> like all of your tools either, nor does your way of 'discovering'
> the world appeal to me (I see it as dry, rigid and not very fun,
> to be honest), but I don't label your way as "False".
Again, if that's me, the charge is untrue. The most that can
be squeezed from me that says that your beliefs are false are
incredibly mild things, such as, perhaps, like "Amara describes
some beliefs incorrectly", or whatever. But there isn't anyone
I've ever met of whom I'm going to pronounce everything they
believe to be true.
The biggest single reason that I post is to have my beliefs
criticized. What's yours?
Lee
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