From: Mikael Johansson (mikael.johansson@wineasy.se)
Date: Tue Jul 10 2001 - 13:32:57 MDT
Mike Lorry wrote:
> soth@another.com wrote:
> > Most of Europe considers America with a sort of amused fear. The gung
ho policies of the US government and selective democracy (NSA anyone),
coupled with the fierce national pride that America tends to exhibit gives
the impression of a six year old c
> hild with a bazooka, unpredictable and dangerous. America is certainly
the most powerful nation in the world and many countries are, or seek to be
allied to the states by none would join.
>
> Well, considering that no european nation recognizes the inherent rights
> of its citizens to the degree that our government does our rights, I
> don't see 'selective democracy' claims as having any weight, especially
> considering we are not a democracy, we are a republic. The NSA spies on
> YOU, not us.
Which /YOU/ do you mean by this? The NSA spies on pretty much everyone --
OTOH, so does most of the security services around the world; swedish SÄPO
included.
The larger problem I see with american democracy than the existence of NSA
is the importance of the judicial system, and the almost ridiculous power
put into lawsuits.
Personally, I partly do agree with the label 'six year old with a
bazooka' -- but that is a feeling that I have from a sort of general
american attitude, partly combined with the extremely medial circus that US
elections form...
> Moreover, the claim of us acting like a 'child with a bazooka,
> unpredictable and dangerous' is also laughable, unless you are a
> congenital hoplophobe. The US has not initiated any conflicts at all,
> does not wage open war on its own people, does not commit widespread
> genocide with the flip of a hat, and does not confiscate the rights of
> the accused in the heat of nationalistic hysteria. European countries
> make a career of doing just these things.
That is quite generalizing. When did Sweden ever engage in any such thing?
Norway? Finland? Switzerland? Iceland?
Admitted, many of the countries in continental Europe does have a slight pro
blem countering those claims -- but OTOH, what about Korea? Vietnam? Iraq?
Bosnia? The US is rather keen on claiming sole right to international
policing using partly gross amounts of violence in the process. It is very
much this tendency that leads us to the 'child with a bazooka' claim; the
fine and noble tradition of declaring foreign countries vile and evil, and
retaliate for this crime with high firepower -- not necessarily caring too
much for how correct the assessment actually is.
> > And lets face it, nut boy Dubya Bush hardly helps matters for increasing
America's popularity, after trashing the Kyoto treaty, pulling out of the
chemical weapons talks and starting up the old star wars program. Most the
world is carefully watching Am
> erica at the moment, that well armed six year old seems to have been made
president.
>
> And he just tolk you gun grabbing socialists to go stuff yourselves. I
> note todays headlines in my local leftie rag hyperventilate over the
> Bush Administration rejecting the bald faced attempt by the UN to get us
> to surrender our 2nd amendment....
You protect a law arming all citizens; an amendment that has effectively
driven the violence rates in the US skyhigh; and you call US 'gun grabbing
socialists'?
I'm very much against arming civilians. I sincerely believe that it will
lead to more violence and criminality, not less. And I do not see how this
automatically makes my otherwise rather liberal (European measurement, not
US) opinions socialist.
// Mikael Johansson
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