From: Anne Marie Tobias (atobias@interwoven.com)
Date: Mon Jun 04 2001 - 13:40:00 MDT
Howdy all,
Spike Jones wrote:
> Anne Marie Tobias wrote:
>
> > Why did the energy crisis suddenly blossom, when
> > fossil fuels strongest advocate entered the white house?
>
> Because the population of Taxifornia continued to rise and
> no new power generation capacity was being built. This
> "crisis" was foreseen at least four years ago by people who
> concern themselves with this sort of thing. I refer you to
> Ideas Futures, where memes to that effect were offered
> for sale some time ago.
The businesses that provide us with power and fossil fuel have
a long history of manipulation, and social engineering on their
own behalf, bending or breaking the laws to fit their need or
desire, and doing whatever it took throughout the third world
to get what they wanted (up to and including, murder, control
of local govenments, and insiting revolutions.)
As these companies have become autonomous multinational
organizations, their loyalty to America has eroded, and they
have begun to treating us just like any other junky is treated by
their dealer.
I never argued that the bed that California finds itself was not
for the most part of it's own making. There is plenty of blame
to go around for everybody to take a good healthy slice.
What I am saying is that, it must be obvious to anybody with
funtioning retinas, that the collapse of California's energy
balancing act came precisely with the exchange of keys to the
administrative branch of the Fedreal government. That the
prior administration had at some piont made it very clear that
it wasn't going to kill the goose that layed the golden eggs,
and that high tech was the engine that drove the national
economy.Were Californians, arrogant? You betcha. Were
Californians stupid not to manage their infrastructure more
wisely? Duh! Were Californians set for a fall? OF Course!
AND it was possible to exist in that vacuum, as long as it was
clear that the FED would do whatever it took to protect it's
golden asset. Change hands, and suddenly we have a FED
that just don't don't care if California eats it... in fact the new
FED loves the energy guys, and if fossil fuel guys feel like
pumping dozens of billions of dollars out of the California
economy... well it's just teach those tight ass envirowackos in
LALA land who really has them by the short and curlies...
It's all a matter of priorities... California was a hot house
garden... and artificial nirvana, and when GW had all that
internet crap ripped out of the whitehouse it didn't that the
power of the Amazing Carnack to figure California's sweet
days were real numbered.
I mean when that Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
acknowledges that what the Western Utilies have engaged in
amounts to highjacking, and extortion... it's pretty fair to say
that things have gotten a wee bit extreme.
> > Why is that man unwilling to give California representatives more
> > than 20 minutes of his time...
>
> The current Taxifornia representatives are not *worth* 20
> minutes of his time. Or mine for that matter.
Hhhhmmmm, interesting... The primary center of America's
strongest economic engine, the breeding place of biotech,
electronics, software, and critical technologies that will allow
America to compete through the next century... isn't worth
20 minutes... actually GW gave the governor 40 minutes
finally, but the first 25 of that was ass chewing, and the last
10 was laughing and letting him know how screwed he was.
> > The largest economic engine in
> > the country, and the president won't talk to the governor...
> > What's wrong with this picture.
>
> Because this governor seems to be confused on the concept
> of ownership for starters. Yesterday's SF Chron, which I
> totally admit is not a trustworthy news source, quoted Red
> Davis threatening to seize the assets of municipal power
> generation facilities, invoking the emergency powers act.
> This act was designed to allow the governor to seize assets
> in true emergencies, such as natural disasters and war, where
> lives are at stake. I fail to see how it can be applied to a
> manmade disaster which cluey ideas-futurists have seen
> coming for years. Now Davis whines because the fed
> refuses to invoke price caps, after the failure of Taxifornia
> to build capacity caused the price to skyrocket in
> the first place.
Hey this disaster was years in the making. The two idiots in the
State Capitol, both Republicans, had been playing footsies with
Eastern energy interests for nearly a decade and a half before
Gray was handed to dung burger... If you were that elected
leader of this state what would you do? Tell the folks, OK
you twit's you screwed up... you made your bed, now sleep in
it! Shortly after your assasination, and the local community had
converted your grave site into a sewage treatment plant...
The Governor is screwed. He has a job. To advocate California
and make this problem go away by any means he see's fit. You
may not agree with him, or like him, and find anything he's done
to meet wit you philosophic ideals. Ask him if he cares. He's
looking square down the barrel at 1,000,000+ people in the state
who won't be able to afford power and gas, and many of them
are elderly, and children... you think he isn't managing a bleeding
ulcer? Think again.
> So, to answer your question of what is wrong with this
> picture, I say: failure to allow free markets to set prices.
> Let the prices rise. That enables alternate energy sources
> to come online, supply rises, price drops. Trying to legislate
> the price of anything is chasing the wind. As for Bush not
> wanting to talk to Davis, I can't blame him. I wouldnt
> want to talk to him either. Davis doesnt seem to understand
> the concept of ownership. If I *own* something then by
> god its MINE and I will use it as I see fit.
Spike... there's this wierd place... where economic reality
crashed headlong into economic theory. It's the job of our State
and Federal government to say... OK children... here's a reality
call. It's also their job to make sure that the hienas don't rape the
state into rigamortis. We have to survive to learn a lesson. We
are valuable to the nation and the world at large. It is one of the
key responsibilities of the government to make this adjustment
clean, and sane over a workable time frame. To give California
the working chance to get to energy self sufficiency without
killing off it's porrest third, or bankrupting it's businesses.
As far as ownership... there is a thing called public domain, a
critical concept that says yuo may own something, but if your
singular benefit, harms the greater public, then you have to be
a little less selfish, and we'll work out REASONABLE terms
to make sure your benefit is weighed fairly against the social
harm it may impose. Just like the ranch boss, who dammed the
stream to wipe out those down the valley, so he could destroy
them and take their property... there are certain acts that may
be a function of ownership, that still qualify perfectly as unlawful
and immoral acts.
Using a critical resource to extort people has always been
considered an immoral and illegal act under most jurisdictions.
> Davis wants to order cities that have their own municipal
> power generation facilities to participate in the rolling
> blackouts while running their generators full bore and selling
> their power at cost to the state. I hope those cities have the
> intestinal fortitude to tell that commie so-called governor to
> go to hell without an air conditioner.
Again what would you have him do... turn the state of. Destroy
the state's economy? All to appease the greed and power
hungry? If you were governor what would you do?
> > As long as there is more profit in being stupid, why would'nt
> > you ever expect the people in power to do all they can to kill
> > the smart. It's just good business.
>
> Thats right, and they are free to spend their resources to try
> to kill the smart. Of course if it is *really* smart, all the oil
> money in the world cannot keep it dead, and their spending
> money on trying to kill alternatives only makes the oil more
> expensive and less competitive.
Depends how you play the game... Nobody talks about the
Carthaginians any more... tell me who the oil companies are
currentl competing with... Each other? That's a laugh. So many
promising technologies, so many intesting ideas, and yet real
significant promise in converting over to renewable or virtually
unlimited energy sources in 40 years. Why is that?
> On a lighter note, I have been tracking the payback time for
> solar panels on the roof. If it doesnt pay back in less than about
> 10 years or so, it is not an attractive investment. But if power
> prices rise only a modest amount, solar panels become a good
> investment, even without tax incentives, consequently the
> industry will blossom like a field of Taxifornia poppies after
> a spring rain. Stand by Anne Marie, we shall see capitalism
> in action. {8-] spike
Sadly, I think you're right... I think we'll see dirty tricks, and a
host of manipulations that delay or prevent alternative energy
sources for decades yet to come. I think that the fossil fuel
folks are so powerful, so intrenched, that it's going to take at
least the remainder of this century to break them, and get them
out of our way. Unless people of real vision, take them on
sooner. That will prove initially very ugly. We will see.
Marie
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