From: Eugene.Leitl@lrz.uni-muenchen.de
Date: Tue May 08 2001 - 14:28:31 MDT
Amusing. Very.
-------- Original Message --------
From: magister poti <silent-tristero@world.std.com>
Subject: com-mensa-rate digest #1
To: silent-tristero@world.std.com
Re: Genius Question
from Bill Lambert <blamb@world.std.com>
Steely E. Dan, Suuuper-Genius
from "tjic" <tjic@thecia.net>
Re: Genius Question
from "Dr. Jon. A. Christopher" <jchrist@stromix.com>
and "David & Patricia" <hoekda@traverse.com>
and "Arthur D. Hlavaty" <hlavaty@panix.com>
and "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@mail.isc.rit.edu>
and NC Hanger / Windhaven <nhanger@windhaven.com>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:56:49 -0400
From: Bill Lambert <blamb@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Genius Question
At 8:39 pm -0700 05.07.01, SpasticMutant wrote:
>So I have a dear friend who has decided that
>because he has scored high on a standardized
>IQ test, he can call himself a genius.
>
>I contend that genius is as genius does, but
>the dictionary lists both definitions - one
>of scoring above 140 on a standardized test,
>and one whose accomplishments warrant a true
>genius title. Needless to say, his constant
>whining about what a genius he is and how the
>chicks really dig that is starting to annoy
>me.
That's doesn't seem real smart, genius or not.
But then again, a true genius is encouraged to be
annoying by mere mortals since being annoying
is the trait that allows the mere mortals to level
the playing field by constantly pointing out how
annoying they are.
>I thought I'd ask this list, since I have a
>feeling we have a good number of people who
>have scored well on an IQ test, whether you
>feel that your high IQ score:
>
> 1. Automatically makes you a genius
> as defined by Stanford-Binet ad
> nauseum
>
> 2. Is a source of pride but nothing
> more
>
> 3. Is totally irrelevant, and you
> view accomplishment as the real
> measure of genius.
>
> 4. IQ ShmiQ. I'm taking a nap.
> (This would put you in the same
> category as my cat.)
>
>If you can't tell already, I'm firmly at #3.
>You know where my cat stands.
I'd tend towards #4 along with the cat, perhaps
yawning even wider.
The discovery of my own claim to genius was
unearthed by the branch of the US government noted
for taking Pacific atols via amphibious landings. Today
they claim they want "a few good men". But at that
time - roughly coincident with the setting of Kubrick's
"Full Metal Jacket" - they would take just about anyone,
and often did. They took me, after all.
At boot camp at Parris Island, SC in mid-November '68,
we spent the better part of a day taking a battery of
standardized tests, including an IQ test. We did this
just after getting at least 6 different immunization shots
rammed rudely into various parts of our body.
Perhaps a week later, during the time we were allowed
to shower or take a dump (choices!) the DI yelled,
"Lambert! Come here you crazy fuck"
"Private Lambert reporting to the Drill Instructor," I
said after running to him like a fool fearing for life
and limb.
"You got the highest mark on this island this year
on the IQ test. Are you some kind of fucking genius?
Then why do you look so stupid? Do you think you're
smarter than me? Hey Ladies... Lambert here thinks
he's a fucking genius."
There follwed a number of questions for which there
are only wrong answers and wrong answers get
your toes mashed with combat boots or a couple
of rigid fingers driven into your solar plexus. He
was aiming to prove that genius doesn't hold much
currency in Marine boot camp, and true value lies
in knowing the pressure points that can turn
someone unconscious faster than a network
sit-com. It was show time and I was the show.
They made me take the IQ test again. While my mates
were crawling on their bellies through a swamp
somewhere, I sat taking the exact same test, this
time alone except for a corporal sitting in front of me
watching my every move. Did they think I copied my
answers from the paper of the kid from West Virginny
sitting next to me who's IQ was less than the average
yearly temperature in Nome? (true fact... one guy was
booted out because his IQ was below the lowest of low
standards, 80, I believe.)
Since I took the test before and wasn't quite as
woozy from the shots nor as sleep deprived, I guess I
got a few points higher. The DI said after the second
test results came back, "Lambert, I guess you are a
fucking genius after all. Who would've fucking believed
it. La dee fucking dah." I think this last sentence has
framed how I think about standardized tests ever since,
"La dee fucking dah."
All this did was get me noticed in a place you want to avoid
being noticed. The practical outcome was that I was assigned
to "teach" Marine recruits who couldn't break down and
reassemble a rifle bindfolded within an alloted time how to
do it. In some cases this was a hopeless proposition, for
there were a couple of guys who couldn't do that simple
task in a million years even without a blindfold or a time
limit. When they couldn't pass at the official test, I got
the shit kicked out of me again )but they never needed
such excuses anyway since the best lesson you could
ever learn was to get the shit kicked out of you for no
particular rhyme nor reason).
{Anway, coming down from the USMC rant... trying
to wash away the smell of gunpowder mixed with
the sweet aroma of pot smoke and the never
forgotten ring in the ear of anti-war protests...}
These days, popular educational theorists down play
the IQ tests as any full measure of intelligence. They
claim 7 types of intelligence, only a few of which are
touched on by an IQ test. The 7 intelligences are (if I
remember correctly): mathematical, spatical, verbal,
musical, physical (mechanical), intrapersonal (knowing
one's self) , and interpersonal. It is this new way of
viewing intelligence that helps explain math genii who
can't tie their shoes or why someone like Muhamed Ali
with a measured IQ of 85 can get the world begging at
his feet, playing the press and media like a violin virtuoso.
It seems your friend, Ann Marie, got short changed
in respect to interpersonal and perhaps intrapersonal
intelligence. You might untactfully explain to him
that these will catch up with him sooner than any
inability to make correct change and are much more
useful types of intelligence than any talent for solving
complex equations in your head. When all is said and
done about IQ tests, "La dee fucking dah" about sums
it up. I think my DI was a genius.
--
== Bill ==
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: "tjic" <tjic@thecia.net>
Subject: Steely E. Dan, Suuuper-Genius
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:21:58 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: SpasticMutant <amerritt@spasticmutant.com>
To: <silent-tristero@world.std.com>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 11:39 PM
Subject: Genius Question
> So I have a dear friend who has decided that
> because he has scored high on a standardized
> IQ test, he can call himself a genius.
Wait, is this a Steely Dan song?
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/SongUnid/EA00E78EDE1273E54825690C002E
A311
Anyway, instead of answering your question, I'll answer a different one:
Q: Is there any circumstance under which someone should *announce* that
he/she is a genius?
A: No.
TJIC
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 21:16:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Dr. Jon. A. Christopher" <jchrist@stromix.com>
Subject: Re: Genius Question
On Mon, 7 May 2001, SpasticMutant wrote:
> 1. Automatically makes you a genius
> as defined by Stanford-Binet ad
> nauseum
>
> 2. Is a source of pride but nothing
> more
>
> 3. Is totally irrelevant, and you
> view accomplishment as the real
> measure of genius.
>
> 4. IQ ShmiQ. I'm taking a nap.
> (This would put you in the same
> category as my cat.)
You forgot 5. "Yeah, sure I'm a genius. So? Most of the people I know
are, too. I't really matter. Oh, yeah, and some of them are *really*
bright."
--
Dr. Jon A. Christopher (858) 558-4850, ext 151
Structural GenomiX jchrist@stromix.com
10505 Roselle St.
San Diego, CA 92121
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: "David & Patricia" <hoekda@traverse.com>
Subject: Re: Genius Question
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 07:44:18 -0400
I've long contended that "genius" intelligence is akin to having a chair
with one leg very long. It can be a lifelong struggle to get the other
parts in sync. Intuitively I'd call genius the integration of the "short
legs" into the precocious model.
$.02
regards
dave
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 06:45:12 -0400
From: "Arthur D. Hlavaty" <hlavaty@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Genius Question
At 08:39 PM 5/7/01 -0700, SpasticMutant wrote:
I used to feel that my high IQ alone qualified me, but then I joined Mensa.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 02:25:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@mail.isc.rit.edu>
Subject: Re: Genius Question
On Mon, 7 May 2001, SpasticMutant antagonized the horn and now...
>
> I contend that genius is as genius does, but
> the dictionary lists both definitions - one
> of scoring above 140 on a standardized test,
> and one whose accomplishments warrant a true
> genius title. Needless to say, his constant
> whining about what a genius he is and how the
> chicks really dig that is starting to annoy
> me.
1.) Chicks don't necessarily dig a high IQ. I'm still alone, and I
score about 140-160 (140 on one part, off the scale == higher than 155
on the other).
2.) 140 is not genius level, in my book. That's close enough to my IQ
that I can make comparisons to me without being too far off. I'm
probably smart enough to say that if you compared me to two randomly
selected people, I'd be smarter than both of them, but I can't solve
twenty partial differential equations in my head or anything like that.
> 1. Automatically makes you a genius
> as defined by Stanford-Binet ad
> nauseum
Is this a Stanford-Binet IQ test that he scored so well on? If so,
aren't those typically given to children, whereas others, like the
WAIS-III are given to adults?
If so, is this person not an adult?
> 2. Is a source of pride but nothing
> more
That's me. I can use it to build confidence. There's not much else
that I can do with is.
> 3. Is totally irrelevant, and you
> view accomplishment as the real
> measure of genius.
I've never accomplished very much, so I wouldn't say that. On the other
hand, while I do feel that accomplishment is in an entirely different
category, I also think that it's quite important. Ask this friend of
yours about a few questions that an average genius should be able to get
right:
1.) Who wrote Faust? (this was the final question for the ``common
knowledge'' section of the WAIS-III)
2.) In _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_, what is the
significance of color?
3.) Some people say that _The Odyssey_ is more of a story about
Telemachus than abous Odysseus. Do you agree or disagree, and
why?
4.) Prove that if a positive integer is not a perfect square, its square
root is irrational.
5.) Prove Fermat's Last Theorem (the proper response is: No! That's
100 pages long!)
6.) Which increases faster--exp(x) or x! ?
7.) State the law of Universal Gravitation
8.) Define conservation of energy and momentum
9.) What is the speed of light equal to? No, I mean, what are the
constants that must be multiplied together to get the speed
of light?
10.) Here's a slide rule. Add the following numbers...
--
|Andrew A. Gill |I posted to Silent-Tristero and|
|<superluser@mail.rit.edu> |all I got was this stupid sig! |
|alt.tv.simpsons CBG-FAQ author | |
| (Report all obscene mail to Le Maitre Pots)|
|<http://trystero.rh.rit.edu> Temporary sig: --
That's my ability test...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 11:45:25 -0400
From: NC Hanger / Windhaven <nhanger@windhaven.com>
Subject: Re: Genius Question
I've always been firmly a #3 sort of person, moreso after they moved the
bell curve ~down~ on the Stanford-Binet IQ tests a while ago (which does
beg the question: does that mean people actually ~became~ smarter?. :-) )
I have a few people in my life who I would regard as true geniuses because
of their accomplishments and their ~applied~ intelligence, but they don't
acknowledge that themselves (which I consider a good sign). Note the
emphasis: it isn't how big, but how they use it. :-)
Another reason why I never joined MENSA.
But then again, I may be in the minority here. If so, please regard it as a
sign that I'm not a genius.
--Nancy
(who may score high, but ~really~ ain't no genius)
=will edit for food=
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