From: Al Villalobos (al.villalobos@qm.com)
Date: Wed Feb 14 2001 - 13:59:15 MST
John Marlow, responding to Mike Lorrey said:
"True enough. However--I said "shot," he said "killed." The vast
majority of cops shot are, fortunately, not killed."
;)
jm
Granted, the 1998 FBI UCR does not specifically track officers shot but not
killed.
However, if you refer to page 31 of the reference document (URL below) "Law
enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed and Assaulted" I think we can safely
infer that being shot and living counts as a felonious assault, yes? (Can
any legal type comment or rebut that?)
You will see that of the 623,887 assaults on law enforcement
officers(remember that includes federal agents as well) only 9.4% ocurred at
a traffic stop. The highest category for assaults, but not killings, is
disturbance calls at 31.8%
[Question for a lawyer: Is shooting someone (not accidentally) automatically
attempted murder?]
So we can conclude, based on this publically available data, that MOST cops
are NOT shot at traffic stops nor are MOST cops killed at traffic stops.
About 1/3rd of cops killed are killed attempting to arrest someone. The
single greatest source of Officer Assaults (on them) is while responding to
a disturbance call. (admittedly a very broad category and there is a good
case to argue that many "disturbace calls" turn into an "arrest situation")
I would therefore submit that Mr. Marlow is incorrect in his original
assertions, but may have a point that #1, the way the numbers are broken
down does not tell the whole story and #2, that certain subsets of "Law
Enforcement Officers" (the California Highway Patrol comes to mind) may
indeed have dramatically different numbers than the aggregate totals shown
in the cited reference.
discuss.....
AL Villalobos
On 13 Feb 2001, at 17:02, Michael Lorrey wrote:
> Since 13.6% and some subset of 35%, according to the math I learned,
> doesn't in any way equal 'MOST', your statement is still false.
>
> John Marlow wrote:
> >
> > I'll buy that--except that a huge number of "arrest situations"
> > develop from traffic stops (suspect flakes or contraband found or
> > NCIC comes back with warrants, etc.)--so I'm thinkiong you've still
> > got traffic stops at the top of the list, if you include those which
> > develop into arrest situations(?)
> >
> > jm
> >
> > On 12 Feb 2001, at 11:30, Al Villalobos wrote:
> >
> > > John Marlow Wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > "MOST cops (who are shot) are shot during traffic stops.
> > > Many also get into it as a result of some personal tragedy (crime)
> > > which has affected them in some way--..."
> > >
> > > Having done extensive research into this very subject for work, I can
quote
> > > directly from the primary source,The FBI Uniform Crime Report for 1998
(most
> > > recent available).
> > >
> > > 1989-1998 total law enforcement officers killed (includes federal
agents)
> > > 682
> > > Killed in traffic pursuits/stops:
> > > 93 (13.6%)
> > > "Arrest situations" (has many sub-categories)Highest overall category
> > > 239 (35%)
> > >
> > > Heres the reference: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/98killed.pdf
> > >
> > > Page 36, Table 23 (of the document, not the PDF file)
> > > "Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed
> > > Circumstances at Scene of Incident by Type of Weapon"
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > AL Villalobos
> > >
> > > "Knowlegde is Good" -- Faber (anyone?? :-) )
> > >
> >
> > John Marlow
>
John Marlow
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