From: hal@finney.org
Date: Sun Sep 24 2000 - 19:10:11 MDT
David Lubkin writes, quoting Hal:
> >If you're prepared to kill in response to robberies and other violent
> >crimes against yourself (as I believe Mike and others advocate) then you
> >must accept that there is a 99% chance that you are NOT defending your
> >life, you are rather applying the death penalty to a sub-lethal crime.
>
> Here's where you stray. Being prepared to kill does not equate with killing.
> Just as most violent crimes do not lead to murder, most uses of guns in
> self-defense also do not lead to homicide.
That's true, but still, from the philosophical perspective, you should
only pull the gun if you believe shooting is justified, right? That seems
to be what many gun owners have said in this discussion. You can't
rely on the hope that you won't have to shoot, that statistically you
can probably just scare them. Most people have said that it is not wise
to rely on this hope as a source of comfort. You have to face squarely
the fact that you should not pull a gun unless you are prepared to use it.
Given that, if you advocate using a gun to stop robbery, rape and other
sub-lethal crimes, philosophically you have to say that it is justified
to kill in order to stop such crimes. The statistics for how seldom
those crimes escalate to murder just sharpen this point.
> No one is advocating that if you see someone committing a crime, you pull out
> your pistol and blow them away, unless it is the only means of saving a life.
> What is being argued is:
>
> - You are entitled to defend yourself against violent attack.
> - We applaud people who are willing to defend others against violence.
> - Guns can be an effective means of defense, if one is trained.
> - There are alternatives to guns, like not being there in the first place, or
> talking someone out of it. They may be effective but are not guaranteed.
> - A necessary part of carrying a gun or knife is an honest acknowledgement that
> this may result in taking a life. Deal with this before you carry.
> - If you are adequately prepared, whether use of a gun in self-defense does
> take a life depends on the criminal's subsequent actions.
I would emphasize your 2nd-to-last point more strongly: acknowledge that
you will be forced to threaten to take a life that does not deserve to be
lost. We don't give robbers the death penalty. It is a disproportionate
punishment (those who disagree are invited to respond to my other message
raising this point).
Hal
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