From: Michael S. Lorrey (retroman@turbont.net)
Date: Thu Sep 21 2000 - 10:42:19 MDT
Joe Dees wrote:
>
> >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:45:09 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Brian D Williams <talon57@well.com>
> >To: extropians@extropy.org
> >Subject: GUNS: Re: Why Here?
> >Reply-To: extropians@extropy.org
> >
> >
> >The purpose of the Second Amendment is so that individuals acting
> >either alone or in conjunction with their neighbors can protect
> >themselves not only from criminals, but from any form of
> >government, federal, state, city, what have you.
> >
> The full text of the 2nd amendment:
>
> A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
>
> As is blindingly obvious, well-regulated militias and the dependence of the security of free states upon them are the reasons given, WITHIN THE 1791 AMENDMENT ITSELF, for preserving the right to keep and bear arms.
That is merely ONE reason, as anyone who has read the federalist papers can
attest. I suggest you actually read them before you keep making yourself look
silly.
>
> >
> >As I've pointed out at length a number of times, it is already
> >against existing federal law for kids, criminals, and psychos to
> >buy or be in possession of firearms.
> >
> >A fact you continue to ignore.
> >
> But the loopholes in the laws could accommodate Mack trucks, certainly MAC-10's (previously purchased, or imported, assault weapons and clips were grandfathered in). The flea market and gun show loophole allows felons to purchase, and the 25% of dealers there who are private have no checking requirements on them. And about that I'm-a-collector-who-buys-a-thousand-of-the-same-model-each-week private citizen loophole - guess how the weapons find themselves into black markets?
MAC-10's of what type? There are automatic and semi-automatic models. Automatic
models are restricted under the NFA of 1934. Semi-automatic models CANNOT be
easily converted to automatic models. I own an automatic MAC-11, which is the
9mm version (the 10 is a .45 version).
Purchase of any gun by any felon who has not obtained a writ of relief from
civil disability from a judge is itself a crime. Selling a gun to such a person
is itself a crime. Both are felonies. The fact is that when a murder is
committed, the prosecutor automatically drops the weapons charges 99.99% of the
time in order to get a plea bargain on the killing. Whoever sold the gun
illegally gets immunity in order to testify against the killer. The problem is
not with the current laws, but with how they are prosecuted.
Of the couple hundred thousand people who have been denied sales of guns under
the Brady Laws insta-check system, less than a handful (literally) have been
prosecuted and convicted. Enforce the laws as they are before you demand more
new laws, buddy.
> >
> >Here in Illinois we already have:
> >
> >1)Licensing
> >
> >2)Waiting periods
> >
> >3)Instant Background checks
> >
> >4) Chicago has a 20 year complete ban on handguns (except for the
> >mayor and city council).
> >
> >Plus a variety of other laws, all to no effect.
> >
> I suggested others that would have more effect, and the NICS checks will have more effect once more of the relevant records are computerized, which is NOT the case presently.
The relevant records are computerized. What the problem is is that a) the feds
system is already obsolete and crashes regularly for days at a time b) states
regularly add non-violent felony convictions to the records, which is illegal
under the Brady Act, which causes many wrongful denials.
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