From: Spudboy100@aol.com
Date: Thu Jul 06 2000 - 12:20:06 MDT
In a message dated 7/6/00 6:11:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, asa@nada.kth.se
writes:
<< hat is not the same thing. Yes, you can move around the matter in the
universe quite a bit using small impulses and a lot of time and
cleverness. But the theorem actually says you cannot close an open
universe no matter what, it has to do with the spacetime topology and
cannot be changed by merely (say) piling all the matter into a big
ball or something similar. To make matters worse, we have a
cosmological constant to deal with too. Of course, quantum gravity and
such things may complicate things enough to enable closure, but that
remains in the realm of wishing for the moment. >>
Oh yes, I never said that Tipler's Cosmology, which is merely a compilation
of the work by J.A. Wheeler at U of Texas as well as the late Charles
Meissner from MIT, was a complete theory, merely a very strong hypothesis. I
wonder why, we give all of eternity over to these universal constants and
then say it shall be so forever? Like Ray Kurzweil, I hold that intelligence
(meat or silicon) is a decent way for the universe or ensamble of universes
to change things. To quote Kurzweil:
" Ultimately intelligence will be a force to be reckon with, even for these
big celestial forces (so watch out!) The laws of physics Are NOT repealed in
their presence, but they effectively evaporate in its presence. "
<Well, a neuron star is a nice thing when you want to resurrect your
relatives all the way back to pre-dynastic Egypt and other small
projects :-) But it doesn't give you the real, infinite
calculations/memory storage, Omega Point. Accept no substitutes :-) >
Anders please! We mammals and other carbon/water forms are indeed being
forced to accept the subsititute called mortality. Along the way many people
may achieve the ecshaton through cryo- or NeoBio, or uploading to Stellar
Mindplaces or the Linde Scenario; but right now its the big sleep, for all of
us, unless evidenced otherwise. Keep working lads and lasses!!
<That plasma can be chaotic does not prove that it can be used to
perform useful calculations. I'm not aware of any proofs that plasma
chaos is of the right kind to be Turing-complete, but I can imagine it
is. However, a real physical (nuclear) plasma is a different thing,
and may very well have diffusion or randomness effects that disrupts
the computations. >
I am guessing you are correct, but then who the heck really thinks about even
considering using plasma as a subsitiute for computation except a minority
of people pn this list? Maybe we need some insight from plasma physicists?
Oh, if Hannes Alfvens were only here! Actually, I was looking at the chaos
(poops in the plasma) as a potential off-on function.
To sum it up, I aggree with the notion that Tipler doesn't have everything,
just a decent round about notion. Will other concepts like an accelerated
expansion wipe out Tipler's thesis? No, because the expansion is, from what I
understand, going at speeds very much under lighspeed. Given even 10 billion
years to over-take the expansion and I believe we've (whomever we've become
or merged with) will modify the cosmological environment. Example, nothing
can go faster then light-except patterns inside an table-top sized electrical
device built either by Anton Zeilinger in Austria or Raymond Chiao in
Toronto. Give it a few Giga or Peta years.... ;-)
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