From: Adrian Tymes (wingcat@pacbell.net)
Date: Sun Jun 18 2000 - 11:58:07 MDT
Amara Graps wrote:
> From: Adrian Tymes <wingcat@pacbell.net>, Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000
>
> >> 2) If you are trying to dazzle her, then she might not find the
> >> space or opportunity to state her opinion.
> >
> >...how do you reach this possibility? Getting her to state her opinions
> >is the purpose of the above.
>
> "Getting"?
>
> Are you in a hurry?
Misunderstanding: I meant "getting" as in "getting it to happen at
all", not "getting it to happen faster than it normally would" (except
insofar as "a finite amount of time" is faster than "never").
> The joy of learning about people is creating an enviroment where
> things unfold naturally. People reveal themselves in their own
> way, and in their own time.
>
> Why not plant seeds and observe (really observe) and ask questions
> here and there and see where they lead?
Hmm. We must be interacting with different classes of people.
When I get to know someone, it is usually through a series of
conversations; "dates" with potential romantic interests only happen
after months of interaction. I try to plant seeds as you say, but they
rarely go anywhere, dismissed with the reaction of, "I couldn't possibly
understand or achieve that, so I'm not even going to try". It is *that*
- the unwillingness to open oneself to new possibilities, nearly
universal among those I interact with except in forums like this (which
I seek out to remind myself that an open mind is not insanity) - that
disappoints.
(On a slightly off-topic note, I wonder if this is behind what they call
the "Digital Divide": those who seek out new ways of doing things,
possibly on their own or possibly repeating someone else's experiments,
prosper; those who are unwilling to do so, even on a limited scale if
they have severely limited means, wither.)
> You could try drawing the girl out by imaginging that she is your
> sister that you have not seen in 10 years, and you're genuinely
> interested in learning how her life has been all these years. It
> might be a warmer enviroment with which to learn about each other.
Which works if you're dealing with people whose lives change over that
period of time. Yours and mine do, and the evidence I see leads me to
believe that most peoples' do, even *must*. But to give an example: the
last woman I dated had basically been supporting her household for the
past 10 years (not as much when she was 15, but moreso now that she is
25). Her mother could earn enough, but has put more and more pressure
on her daughters to support her, and has threatened physical violence on
the rest if any of them dares move away. The daughter in question
refuses to do a thing to free herself from said circumstances, even
though they have prevented her from following through on her dream of
being an artist.
After running into several situations like that - when I dig a little,
those who attracted my interest with their potential turn out to have
given up on realizing it - I tend not to look too hard any longer.
(Though, as was said, it may be that the only reason I was looking to
begin with was external pressure.)
> I wrote my previous message in order to show that the approach that
> I've seen/experienced used alot by bright guys might seem to the woman to
> be a bit arrogant and overwhelming. She's observing and filtering
> (quite a lot) too, but her interests, methods (and goals)
> are likely to be different.
<nods> It doesn't just apply to bright guys, though. The distinction
is, which do one place a higher value on: learning about her/him, or
boasting about oneself? People usually like to talk about themselves.
Make someone believe they are of interest to you in and of themselves
(not strictly as a tool to accomplish your own agenda), and you can
usually make at least a friend. (Right?)
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