From bram at gawth.com Mon Jan 6 12:40:01 2003 From: bram at gawth.com (Bram Cohen) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:04 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday Message-ID: usual time, usual place when: second sunday, this time it's the 12th, 3pm till whenever we leave where: SONY metreon, food court what: p2p-hackers meeting, sit around and chat about our projects -Bram Cohen "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" -- John Maynard Keynes From kevyn_s at hotmail.com Mon Jan 6 13:46:01 2003 From: kevyn_s at hotmail.com (kevyn) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:04 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday References: Message-ID: loev to but uk based,anything this side of the pond? happyhacker........ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bram Cohen" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 8:39 PM Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday > usual time, usual place > > when: second sunday, this time it's the 12th, 3pm till whenever we leave > where: SONY metreon, food court > what: p2p-hackers meeting, sit around and chat about our projects > > -Bram Cohen > > "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" > -- John Maynard Keynes > > _______________________________________________ > p2p-hackers mailing list > p2p-hackers@zgp.org > http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > From levine at vinecorp.com Mon Jan 6 22:43:01 2003 From: levine at vinecorp.com (James D. Levine) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:04 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] [Silicon Valley] Reminder: PeerPunks meeting Tuesday Jan 14 (in a week) Message-ID: The next meeting will be Tuesday January 14. Spread the word, bring a friend. More pesky reminders to follow... Where: Dana Street Roasting Company 744 W Dana St, Mountain View,CA 94041 Phone: (650) 390-9638 This is just 1/2 block off Castro St. When: 7:00 pm onward ----- PeerPunks is just my clever name for the Silicon Valley contingent of p2p enthusiasts, hackers, well-wishers, etc. Any and all are welcome, so please come and join in... If you received this email directly from me (and not a mailing list) and wish not to receive any further notifications, let me know and I will remove you from my private list. From cefn.hoile at bt.com Tue Jan 7 04:08:09 2003 From: cefn.hoile at bt.com (cefn.hoile@bt.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:04 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday Message-ID: <92D69A614ED4924A9071EA4886317878A3843C@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Also in UK myself. Where are you, Kevyn? Cefn http://www.cefn.com -----Original Message----- From: kevyn [mailto:kevyn_s@hotmail.com] ... uk based,anything this side of the pond? ... From kevyn_s at hotmail.com Tue Jan 7 05:01:02 2003 From: kevyn_s at hotmail.com (kevyn swaryczeski) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday Message-ID: Hatfield , hertfordshire Kevyn >From: cefn.hoile@bt.com >Reply-To: p2p-hackers@zgp.org >To: p2p-hackers@zgp.org >Subject: RE: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:55:03 -0000 > >Also in UK myself. Where are you, Kevyn? > >Cefn >http://www.cefn.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: kevyn [mailto:kevyn_s@hotmail.com] > >... uk based,anything this side of the pond? ... >_______________________________________________ >p2p-hackers mailing list >p2p-hackers@zgp.org >http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From sam at neurogrid.com Tue Jan 7 05:15:01 2003 From: sam at neurogrid.com (Sam Joseph) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday References: <92D69A614ED4924A9071EA4886317878A3843C@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Message-ID: <3E1AD681.8030609@neurogrid.com> Anybody else here in Japan? (I'm sometimes in the UK too). CHEERS> SAM cefn.hoile@bt.com wrote: >Also in UK myself. Where are you, Kevyn? > >Cefn >http://www.cefn.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: kevyn [mailto:kevyn_s@hotmail.com] > >... uk based,anything this side of the pond? ... >_______________________________________________ >p2p-hackers mailing list >p2p-hackers@zgp.org >http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > > > > From agl at imperialviolet.org Tue Jan 7 06:15:02 2003 From: agl at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030107132116.GB14741@imperialviolet.org> > loev to but uk based,anything this side of the pond? > happyhacker........ I'm in London (next to the Albert Hall). People are always welcome to drop by (it's a good idea to phone me first though). -- Adam Langley agl@imperialviolet.org http://www.imperialviolet.org (+44) (0)7986 296753 PGP: 9113 256A CC0F 71A6 4C84 5087 CDA5 52DF 2CB6 3D60 From hopper at omnifarious.org Tue Jan 7 09:39:01 2003 From: hopper at omnifarious.org (Eric Mathew Hopper) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Anybody here from Minnesota? Message-ID: <20030107173823.GA17816@omnifarious.org> All these meeting notices about meetings in or near San Francisco are kind of disheartening.? :-) Have fun (if at all possible), -- "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --- Thomas Jefferson "Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." -- Mark Twain -- Eric Hopper (hopper@omnifarious.org http://www.omnifarious.org/~hopper) -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://zgp.org/pipermail/p2p-hackers/attachments/20030107/d81ca634/attachment.pgp From justin at chapweske.com Tue Jan 7 10:11:02 2003 From: justin at chapweske.com (Justin Chapweske) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Anybody here from Minnesota? In-Reply-To: <20030107173823.GA17816@omnifarious.org> References: <20030107173823.GA17816@omnifarious.org> Message-ID: <3E1B1827.7060109@chapweske.com> The Onion Networks crew is in Minnesota. Eric Mathew Hopper wrote: > All these meeting notices about meetings in or near San Francisco are > kind of disheartening. :-) > > Have fun (if at all possible), -- Justin Chapweske, Onion Networks http://onionnetworks.com/ From cefn.hoile at bt.com Tue Jan 7 10:31:02 2003 From: cefn.hoile at bt.com (cefn.hoile@bt.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday Message-ID: <92D69A614ED4924A9071EA4886317878A38444@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Any other lurkers in UK. Maybe it would be good to get together sometime to exchange mad ideas. I am in Ipswich, Suffolk but I guess this isn't too central. Cefn http://www.cefn.com -----Original Message----- From: kevyn swaryczeski [mailto:kevyn_s@hotmail.com] Sent: 07 January 2003 13:01 To: p2p-hackers@zgp.org Subject: RE: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday Hatfield , hertfordshire Kevyn From jamyang at openflows.org Tue Jan 7 10:35:02 2003 From: jamyang at openflows.org (Greg Walton) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday In-Reply-To: <92D69A614ED4924A9071EA4886317878A38444@i2km11-ukbr.domain1 .systemhost.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030107182909.03be15b0@openflows.org> ok, ok - when i'm not in usa. i'm probably in bristol, like today [miserable weather] this is a fascinating list btw, .greg http://go.openflows.org At 18:29 07/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Any other lurkers in UK. Maybe it would be good to get together sometime to >exchange mad ideas. I am in Ipswich, Suffolk but I guess this isn't too >central. > >Cefn >http://www.cefn.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: kevyn swaryczeski [mailto:kevyn_s@hotmail.com] >Sent: 07 January 2003 13:01 >To: p2p-hackers@zgp.org >Subject: RE: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday > > >Hatfield , hertfordshire > > > >Kevyn >_______________________________________________ >p2p-hackers mailing list >p2p-hackers@zgp.org >http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers From kevyn_s at hotmail.com Tue Jan 7 16:01:01 2003 From: kevyn_s at hotmail.com (kevyn) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030107182909.03be15b0@openflows.org> Message-ID: arranging a mad meeting day in the(UK) future sounds like pretty cool idea................... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Walton" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 6:32 PM Subject: RE: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday > ok, ok - when i'm not in usa. i'm probably in bristol, like today > [miserable weather] > this is a fascinating list btw, > > .greg > http://go.openflows.org > > > At 18:29 07/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >Any other lurkers in UK. Maybe it would be good to get together sometime to > >exchange mad ideas. I am in Ipswich, Suffolk but I guess this isn't too > >central. > > > >Cefn > >http://www.cefn.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: kevyn swaryczeski [mailto:kevyn_s@hotmail.com] > >Sent: 07 January 2003 13:01 > >To: p2p-hackers@zgp.org > >Subject: RE: [p2p-hackers] p2p-hackers meeting, this upcoming sunday > > > > > >Hatfield , hertfordshire > > > > > > > >Kevyn > >_______________________________________________ > >p2p-hackers mailing list > >p2p-hackers@zgp.org > >http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > > _______________________________________________ > p2p-hackers mailing list > p2p-hackers@zgp.org > http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > From arma at mit.edu Tue Jan 7 19:59:01 2003 From: arma at mit.edu (Roger Dingledine) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Anonymity tutorial at MIT, Wed Jan 15, 7-10pm Message-ID: <20030107225853.M25174@moria.mit.edu> [Please forward anywhere you think might be interested. And if you're a p2p-hacker in Boston, come and meet some of the others.] I'm doing a tutorial on anonymity designs, as part of the MIT I/S series of talks this January. It will be along the lines of my Blackhat and Defcon talks from August, but going into more detail. We'll likely have some form of refreshments. The room is plenty big, so feel free to show up, and bring plenty of questions. I'll adapt the material based on audience clue and interests. Please forward this to other relevant/interested lists. "Why is anonymity so hard?" Roger Dingledine Wednesday, Jan 15, 7-10pm MIT Room 54-100 (http://whereis.mit.edu/bin/map?locate=bldg_54) Open to the public With reasonable anonymity designs that are decades old, it seems clear that we should have a reliable, secure, and ubiquitous anonymity network by now. But apart from the purely technical challenges, there are social barriers as well. The complexity of distributing trust, problems funding the infrastructure or getting volunteers to run it, and challenge of making users comfortable all conspire to make deploying a strong anonymity system very difficult. I'll start with a crash course on anonymity designs, and compare ease of deployment based on the above issues. I will focus on Mixminion, a new message-based anonymous remailer protocol and Onion Routing, a low-latency stream-based anonymous communication system. I'll also spend some time talking about the link padding / dummy traffic problem. Throughout, I'll share some intuition about how to break these systems and how to fix them. From mike at p2ptrust.org Wed Jan 8 04:05:01 2003 From: mike at p2ptrust.org (Mike Bursell) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] UK people In-Reply-To: <20030108112849.30117.51044.Mailman@capsicum.zgp.org> References: <20030108112849.30117.51044.Mailman@capsicum.zgp.org> Message-ID: <1042027411.23571.22.camel@lemon> I'm near Braintree - about halfway between the Hatfield and Ipswich people. -Mike. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://zgp.org/pipermail/p2p-hackers/attachments/20030108/261ee062/attachment.pgp From miles at milessabin.com Wed Jan 8 04:17:02 2003 From: miles at milessabin.com (Miles Sabin) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] UK people In-Reply-To: <1042027411.23571.22.camel@lemon> References: <20030108112849.30117.51044.Mailman@capsicum.zgp.org> <1042027411.23571.22.camel@lemon> Message-ID: <200301081216.23366.miles@milessabin.com> Mike Bursell wrote, > I'm near Braintree - about halfway between the Hatfield and Ipswich > people. And I'm in Brighton ... Interesting looking site BTW, nice to see Gambetta's book getting a mention. Cheers, Miles From hopper at omnifarious.org Wed Jan 8 18:49:01 2003 From: hopper at omnifarious.org (Eric M. Hopper) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Anybody here from Minnesota? In-Reply-To: <3E1B1827.7060109@chapweske.com> References: <20030107173823.GA17816@omnifarious.org> <3E1B1827.7060109@chapweske.com> Message-ID: <1042080518.18668.3.camel@monster.omnifarious.org> On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 12:10, Justin Chapweske wrote: > The Onion Networks crew is in Minnesota. I know. You and I and the people we both work with should get together sometime. Have fun (if at all possible), -- The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. -- Alexander Hamilton -- Eric Hopper (hopper@omnifarious.org http://www.omnifarious.org/~hopper) -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 185 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://zgp.org/pipermail/p2p-hackers/attachments/20030108/b87769f6/attachment.pgp From bram at gawth.com Sun Jan 12 00:09:02 2003 From: bram at gawth.com (Bram Cohen) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Reminder: p2p-hackers meeting tomorrow (sunday) Message-ID: Remember, there's a p2p-hackers meeting tomorrow, sunday, starting around 3pm, at the SONY metreon. -Bram Cohen "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" -- John Maynard Keynes From Bernard.Traversat at Sun.Com Sun Jan 12 08:21:02 2003 From: Bernard.Traversat at Sun.Com (Bernard Traversat) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] [CFP] P2P Computing, Euro-Par 2003 Topic 18 Message-ID: <3E219743.2080004@Sun.Com> ****************************************************** *** *** *** CALL FOR PAPERS *** *** Submission Deadline: February 9, 2003 *** *** *** *** EURO-PAR 2003 Topic 18 *** *** Peer-to-Peer Computing *** *** *** *** Klagenfurt, Austria *** *** August 26-29, 2003 *** *** *** *** http://europar-itec.uni-klu.ac.at/ *** *** *** ****************************************************** Description This Topic is devoted to High-Performance Computing on widely distributed systems utilizing Peer-to-Peer technologies. In contrast with the usual Client Server organization scheme, these systems are (or attempt at being) highly decentralized, self-organizing with respect to the external context, and with a notion of balanced resource trading. Hence, each node within such a system can provide both Client and Server capability. In the long term, participating nodes may expect to be granted as much resources as they provide. Because of size, autonomy and high volatility of their resources, P2P platforms provide the opportunity for researchers to re-evaluate many fields of Distributed Computing, such as protocols, infrastructures, security, certification, fault tolerance, scheduling, performance, etc. This topic focuses on High-Performance Computing in the broadest sense: putting together CPU cycles, acquiring input data, managing temporary and persistent data, interacting with the user, storing result files, etc. Work addressing new issues raised by the current trend for the convergence of Grid and P2P systems will be of particular interest: concerning installation, utilization, flexibility, scalability, etc. Authors wishing to demonstrate running systems and applications in addition to their research paper are invited to refer to the specific Demonstration Topic 19. Subjects of interest - P2P platforms for HPC - Middleware, programming models, environments and toolkits for P2P HPC - P2P-aware algorithms for HPC - Large-scale data management for P2P HPC - Convergence between P2P and Grid systems - Performance monitoring, benchmarking, evaluation and modeling of P2P systems - Security, confidentiality in P2P HPC - Resource and service discovery in P2P systems - Structuring P2P systems - Utilizing intelligent approaches in P2P systems - Agent based support for P2P systems ----------------------------------------------------------------------- KEY DATES November 8, 2002 First call for papers February 9, 2003 Final date for submissions May 1, 2003 Notification of acceptance July 15, 2003 Early registration deadline ----------------------------------------------------------------------- PC COMMITTEE Global Chair Prof. Luc Boug? IRISA, ENS Cachan, Brittany extension Rennes, France Email: Luc.Bouge@bretagne.ens-cachan.fr Vice Chairs Dr. Bernard Traversat Project JXTA Sun Microsystems, SCA21-308 Santa Clara, USA Email: Bernard.Traversat@sun.com Dr. Omer Rana Department of Computer Science Cardiff University, UK Email: O.F.Rana@cs.cardiff.ac.uk Local Chair Dr. Franck Cappello, CNRS, LRI-Universit? Paris-Sud, France Email: Franck.Cappello@lri.fr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUBMISSION DETAILS Authors are requested to submit their papers by using our submission site http://europar-itec.uni-klu.ac.at/submission.html (please indicate TOPIC 18). The site will open not later than at the beginning of January 2003. All accepted papers will be available at the conference in the proceedings published by Springer-Verlag in the LNCS series. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- MISSION STATEMENT EURO-PAR Euro-Par is the annual series of international conferences dedicated to the promotion and advancement of all aspects of parallel and distributed computing. Euro-Par 2003 will represent 19 topics in the categories of hardware, software, algorithms and applications. The conference normally attracts more than 300 participants coming from universities, research centres and industry. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From levine at vinecorp.com Sun Jan 12 23:22:02 2003 From: levine at vinecorp.com (James D. Levine) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] [Silicon Valley] Reminder: PeerPunks meeting this Tuesday Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- The next meeting will be Tuesday January 14. Spread the word, bring a friend. More pesky reminders to follow... Where: Dana Street Roasting Company 744 W Dana St, Mountain View,CA 94041 Phone: (650) 390-9638 This is just 1/2 block off Castro St. When: 7:00 pm onward ----- PeerPunks is just my clever name for the Silicon Valley contingent of p2p enthusiasts, hackers, well-wishers, etc. Any and all are welcome, so please come and join in... If you received this email directly from me (and not a mailing list) and wish not to receive any further notifications, let me know and I will remove you from my private list. From steve_bryan at mac.com Tue Jan 14 08:12:01 2003 From: steve_bryan at mac.com (Steve Bryan) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Anybody here from Minnesota? In-Reply-To: <1042080518.18668.3.camel@monster.omnifarious.org> Message-ID: Oops, I haven't been paying enough attention and missed the Minnesota reference. I am also currently located here in Bloomington. We might almost have enough to try to organize a meeting. From levine at vinecorp.com Tue Jan 14 11:25:01 2003 From: levine at vinecorp.com (James D. Levine) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] [Silicon Valley] Reminder: PeerPunks Meeting Tonite Message-ID: See you there- James ---------- Forwarded message ---------- The next meeting will be Tuesday January 14. Spread the word, bring a friend. More pesky reminders to follow... Where: Dana Street Roasting Company 744 W Dana St, Mountain View,CA 94041 Phone: (650) 390-9638 This is just 1/2 block off Castro St. When: 7:00 pm onward ----- PeerPunks is just my clever name for the Silicon Valley contingent of p2p enthusiasts, hackers, well-wishers, etc. Any and all are welcome, so please come and join in... If you received this email directly from me (and not a mailing list) and wish not to receive any further notifications, let me know and I will remove you from my private list. From zooko at zooko.com Tue Jan 14 16:07:01 2003 From: zooko at zooko.com (Zooko) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Announcing Mnet v0.6 Message-ID: The Mnet Development Team [1] is pleased to announce the release of Mnet v0.6. Mnet is a "universal file space" -- a global space in which you can store and retrieve files. The contents of the universal file space are independent of any particular server. It comes with a GUI file browser that looks a bit like a classical file-sharing tool such as Napster. The code is published under the L GNU Public License. The major user-visible improvements of v0.6 over v0.5.1 are that broken files now get erased from the content directories, and that downloads are much faster and more reliable. The major Known Bug in this release is that the fundamental architecture is efficient for small networks but inherently unscalable. Zooko makes the wild guess that the current code (v0.6) will start failing once there are more than 250 nodes on the network, and that incremental improvements (which will probably be named v0.6.1) will work with more than 250 nodes but will start failing once there are more than 2500 nodes. A new fundamental architecture that can handle arbitrarily large networks is under development, and will be released as Mnet v0.7. (See the Mnet weather report [2] for the current size of the network and some performance measurements.) Please view the ChangeLog for more details: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/mnet/mnet/ChangeLog?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup Please visit the download page for precompiled packages for Linux, Windows, FreeBSD, and Solaris. Also available from the download page are instructions for compiling the software from source. http://mnet.sf.net/download.php Please use Mnet and report bugs via e-mail to , or by using the SourceForge bug tracker: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?group_id=43482&atid=436453 The availability and persistence of files is strongly influenced by how stable the servers are. If you run a stable Mnet server it will help. More information is available on the project web page: http://mnet.sf.net/ Regards, Zooko Developer, Mnet Project [1] The Mnet Development Team is a loosely-organized band of hackers from around the planet who work on the project as a volunteer, non-profit operation in the public interest. Each hacker is either single or else associated with a very supportive romantic partner. [2] The Mnet Weather Report is a series of e-mails to the mnet-devel mailing list with the mysterious From: address "Carnivore". http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=7702 From bradneuberg at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 22:48:01 2003 From: bradneuberg at yahoo.com (Brad Neuberg) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Announcing Mnet v0.6 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030115064718.45832.qmail@web14102.mail.yahoo.com> > A new fundamental > architecture that can handle > arbitrarily large networks is under development, and > will be released as > Mnet v0.7. Any details on the new architecture? From coderman at mindspring.com Fri Jan 17 00:47:02 2003 From: coderman at mindspring.com (coderman) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] WiFi Caravan from Portland to San Francisco Message-ID: <3E27C2F9.1000500@mindspring.com> WiFi Caravan from Portland to San Francisco A half dozen (or more?) wifi enthusiasts here in Portland will be heading down to CodeCon 03 in San Francisco with a pile of wifi gear, inverters, loaded disk drives, and lots of network services: a wireless caravan! If you would like to join us in Portland, San Francisco, or anywhere inbetween you can find the requisite details at: http://cubicmetercrystal.com/wificaravan/ We will be leaving the morning of Feb. 21st and arriving in San Francisco later that night. The return trip will be the morning of Feb 25th arriving in Portland that night. About 4 vehicles will be used to transport the core of the network, with twice as many (maybe more) in the caravan overall. We will be stopping at a number of rendevous points along the way (to be announced shortly) to make it easy to join our mobile wifi lan party should you choose to do so :-) We are holding a number of weekly test runs in Portland to test the equipment and configuration. If you would like to join us for one of these weekend tests send me an email and we can work out time and location details. Hope to see you there... -- _____________________________________________________________________ coderman@mindspring.com http://cubicmetercrystal.com/ key fingerprint: 9C00 C63E A71D D488 AF17 F406 56FB 71D9 E17D E793 ( see html source for public key ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From bram at gawth.com Tue Jan 21 14:38:01 2003 From: bram at gawth.com (Bram Cohen) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] CodeCon presentations announced and registration open Message-ID: CodeCon 2.0 is the premier event in 2003 for the P2P, Cypherpunk, and network/security application developer community. It is a workshop for developers of real-world applications with working code and active development projects. CodeCon registration is $95; a $15 discount is available for attendees who register online prior to February 15th. CodeCon 2.0 will be held February 22-24, noon-6pm, at Club NV (525 Howard Street) in San Francisco. http://www.codecon.info/ Presentations will include: * Advogato - Good metadata, even when under attack, based on a trust metric * Alluvium - p2p media streaming for low-bandwidth broadcasters * Bayonne - Telephony application services for freely licensed operating systems * Cryptopy - pure Python crypto * DeepGreen - Agent Oriented investment analysis designed to be self-funding * GNU radio - Hacking the RF Spectrum with Free Software and Hardware * HOTorNOT - A working example of well-designed website user interface * Hydan - Steganographically conceal a message into an executable application * Khashmir - A distributed hash table library upon which applications can be built * Mixminion - A next-generation anonymous remailer * Neurogrid - Decentralized Fuzzy Meta-Data Search * OpenRatings - An open source professor ratings engine * Paketto Keiretsu - Interesting and Useful Techniques for TCP/IP Networking * YouServ - A communal web-hosting system for the masses * A panel on future directions in version control -Bram Cohen "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" -- John Maynard Keynes From sam at neurogrid.com Tue Jan 21 22:05:01 2003 From: sam at neurogrid.com (Sam Joseph) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] "Access Control" in P2P and CDN Message-ID: <3E2E3867.7060901@neurogrid.com> Hi Everyone, I've got to give a talk soon on content distribution networks and p2p systems, particularly as regards the presence of "access control". So far I'm going to include YouServ, and probably mention the primitive access control in NeuroGrid. If I remember correctly, some Gnutella clones can be set up to provide private sub-networks. However, I wondered if any of you thought there were any other good examples of "access control" being used in distributed network environments. In more concrete terms, the use of "Access Policies" within the distributed network environment to restrict access to certain types of content to different subsets of users ... Thanks in advance. CHEERS> SAM From Research at iDefense.com Wed Jan 22 07:26:01 2003 From: Research at iDefense.com (Research) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] (iDEFENSE) Call for Papers Message-ID: Folks, My name is Sunil James. I manage a program within iDEFENSE that is responsible for networking with security researchers throughout the world in order to develop client-specific content covering a range of issues. I've e-mailed this list because I am interested in finding out who among you would be interested in writing papers for iDEFENSE. Some topics that came off the top of my head include: P2P Security (general paper) P2P Viruses RIAA and infecting of P2P networks I'm more interested to hear what you, the community, are security issues that really haven't been discussed as of yet but need to be. If you're interested, please e-mail me at contributor@idefense.com with your thoughts. I look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, Sunil Sunil James Manager, VCP iDEFENSE Inc. http://www.idefense.com/contributor.html From justin at chapweske.com Wed Jan 22 19:31:01 2003 From: justin at chapweske.com (Justin Chapweske) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] STUN - Simple Traversal of UDP Through Network Address Translators Message-ID: <3E2F61F0.3080605@chapweske.com> -- Justin Chapweske, Onion Networks http://onionnetworks.com/ From cefn.hoile at bt.com Thu Jan 23 05:47:01 2003 From: cefn.hoile at bt.com (cefn.hoile@bt.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Survey of File Types Message-ID: <92D69A614ED4924A9071EA4886317878026CC7AF@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Anyone seen a survey on the composition of file types in any P2P network? I'd like to know what a suitable model would be for the distribution of types e.g. 10% (really big) DivX files, 70% (moderate size) audio files, 20% (really small) image files. I'm sure I saw such a survey from an automated trawl of Gnutella in the past, but I can't find it now. Any pointers gratefully received. Cefn http://www.cefn.com From zooko at zooko.com Thu Jan 23 06:11:01 2003 From: zooko at zooko.com (Zooko) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Survey of File Types In-Reply-To: Message from cefn.hoile@bt.com of "Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:45:49 GMT." <92D69A614ED4924A9071EA4886317878026CC7AF@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <92D69A614ED4924A9071EA4886317878026CC7AF@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Message-ID: cefn.hoile@bt.com wrote: > > I'm sure I saw such a survey from an automated trawl of Gnutella in the > past, but I can't find it now. Any pointers gratefully received. This is a very small sample, and therefore statistically useless but perhaps anecdotally interesting. :-) The type, number, and aggregate size of files on Mnet yesterday, the 23rd. (This table only shows files that are posted publically for all to read. For private (encrypted) files we can roughly estimate the sizes, and perhaps the usage patterns, but nothing else.) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=1557634&forum_id=7702 The relevant excerpt: Content Type Seen Total Seen Today New Today -------------------------------------------------------------------------- GenericDescription 90 0.25GB 74 0.23GB 0 0.00GB WWW 3 0.00GB 3 0.00GB 0 0.00GB adult_content 156 5.48GB 148 5.44GB 0 0.00GB audio 4047 20.92GB 2798 14.06GB 2 0.00GB gutenberg_text 6 0.00GB 6 0.00GB 0 0.00GB image 69 0.00GB 10 0.00GB 0 0.00GB software 67 2.13GB 62 0.89GB 1 0.00GB text_ebook 53 0.19GB 53 0.19GB 1 0.00GB video 227 30.86GB 191 22.89GB 0 0.00GB Regards, Zooko http://zooko.com/ From mfreed at cs.nyu.edu Thu Jan 23 06:49:02 2003 From: mfreed at cs.nyu.edu (Michael J. Freedman) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] Survey of File Types In-Reply-To: <92D69A614ED4924A9071EA4886317878026CC7AF@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Message-ID: Cefn, A recent OSDI paper does an analysis of Internet CDNs, including several popular P2P file-sharing network. It only partially covers the information you are looking for, but I thought you still might be interested: http://www.cs.washington.edu/research/networking/websys/pubs/osdi_2002/abstract.html Ceers, --mike On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 cefn.hoile@bt.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:45:49 -0000 > From: cefn.hoile@bt.com > Reply-To: p2p-hackers@zgp.org > To: p2p-hackers@zgp.org > Subject: [p2p-hackers] Survey of File Types > > Anyone seen a survey on the composition of file types in any P2P network? > > I'd like to know what a suitable model would be for the distribution of > types e.g. 10% (really big) DivX files, 70% (moderate size) audio files, 20% > (really small) image files. > > I'm sure I saw such a survey from an automated trawl of Gnutella in the > past, but I can't find it now. Any pointers gratefully received. > > Cefn > http://www.cefn.com > _______________________________________________ > p2p-hackers mailing list > p2p-hackers@zgp.org > http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > ----- "Not all those who wander are lost." www.michaelfreedman.org From hemppah at cc.jyu.fi Thu Jan 23 07:03:01 2003 From: hemppah at cc.jyu.fi (hemppah@cc.jyu.fi) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p usage patterns Message-ID: <1043333537.3e3001a1795e2@tammi2.cc.jyu.fi> Hi, Does anyone know if there are papers/experiments regarding p2p usage patterns ? What I'm interested in is that how different p2p architectures (DHTs, Gnutellas, Small Worlds...) will survive in a situtations where usage patterns are 'dangerous' to a system (e.g. very popular content is uploaded into the system etc), i.e. system is under heavy stress because of 'exceptional' usage pattern. What about usage patterns in other networks, e.g. the whole Internet ? Thanks, Hermanni Hyyti?l? ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From peter.backx at intec.rug.ac.be Thu Jan 23 07:26:01 2003 From: peter.backx at intec.rug.ac.be (Peter Backx) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p usage patterns In-Reply-To: <1043333537.3e3001a1795e2@tammi2.cc.jyu.fi> Message-ID: There's been a lot of research into distribution of queries for world wide web documents. These follow a zipF-like distribution. I can lookup a number of papers on this if you're interested. We've also done some (very very limited) measurements on popularity of files in peer-to-peer and a first indication is that these also behave zipf-like. This was added as a last minute addition to the p2p paper you can find on http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~pbackx. Sadly I had to stop the p2p monitoring project, since I no longer have enough support and time to continue it. AFAIK there hasn't been much research into the dynamic behavior of these systems, like "How do they handle flash crowds?" and "how do new files spread on the network?". Both of these questions aren't easy to answer. I've done some experiments in this area, however none showed any conclusive results. I'd be happy to share measurement results and ideas with you if you're interested. regards, Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: p2p-hackers-admin@zgp.org [mailto:p2p-hackers-admin@zgp.org]On > Behalf Of hemppah@cc.jyu.fi > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:52 PM > To: p2p-hackers@zgp.org > Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p usage patterns > > > > Hi, > > Does anyone know if there are papers/experiments regarding p2p > usage patterns ? > What I'm interested in is that how different p2p architectures > (DHTs, Gnutellas, > Small Worlds...) will survive in a situtations where usage patterns are > 'dangerous' to a system (e.g. very popular content is uploaded > into the system > etc), i.e. system is under heavy stress because of 'exceptional' > usage pattern. > What about usage patterns in other networks, e.g. the whole Internet ? > > Thanks, > Hermanni Hyyti?l? > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > _______________________________________________ > p2p-hackers mailing list > p2p-hackers@zgp.org > http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > > From zooko at zooko.com Thu Jan 23 08:04:01 2003 From: zooko at zooko.com (Zooko) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] p2p usage patterns In-Reply-To: Message from hemppah@cc.jyu.fi of "Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:52:17 +0200." <1043333537.3e3001a1795e2@tammi2.cc.jyu.fi> References: <1043333537.3e3001a1795e2@tammi2.cc.jyu.fi> Message-ID: Hermanni Hyytiälä wrote: > > Does anyone know if there are papers/experiments regarding p2p usage patterns ? > What I'm interested in is that how different p2p architectures (DHTs, Gnutellas, > Small Worlds...) will survive in a situtations where usage patterns are > 'dangerous' to a system (e.g. very popular content is uploaded into the system > etc), i.e. system is under heavy stress because of 'exceptional' usage pattern. > What about usage patterns in other networks, e.g. the whole Internet ? I wrote a paper about how Mojo Nation performed badly in terms of file persistence due in large part to the unexpected usage patterns. For example, I estimated that the typical half-life for the Mojo Nation network (the time for replacement of half of the nodes due to joins and leaves) was less than one hour. Of course, in the larger picture the cause of the frequent join/leave problem might have been something fixable, such as the user interface, or even the product marketing or something. The paper doesn't talk about that at all -- only about how the architecture was badly matched to the actual user behavior. http://zooko.com/IPTPS02.pdf (This version of the paper is much improved from the original version, which can be found at http://www.cs.rice.edu/Conferences/IPTPS02/. The new version, on my web server, is identical to the one in the dead tree proceedings, I think.) Regards, Zooko http://zooko.com/ From zainul at ee.iitb.ac.in Thu Jan 23 08:07:01 2003 From: zainul at ee.iitb.ac.in (Zainul M Charbiwala) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup Message-ID: <20030123203333.3b486408.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> Hi all, Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? The idea had been inspired some time ago looking for a creative pasttime while reading up on design of Autonomous Software Agents. (No, not clippy-like). At the time, I didn't have much info about P2P either, and the project tapered off into into void. Reading the recent imaginative article on Curious Yellow (http://blanu.net/curious_yellow.html), has re-instilled some enthusiasm to pick up that project again. Before I restart though, I would like some suggestions on design and security. What I'm specifically looking for are some rough guidelines, dos and donts, for general P2P app design. Thanks, Zainul. -- It is insufficient to protect ourselves with laws. We need to protect ourselves with mathematics. - Applied Cryptography From tzoompy at cs.washington.edu Thu Jan 23 12:00:02 2003 From: tzoompy at cs.washington.edu (Stefan Saroiu) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: <20030123203333.3b486408.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> Message-ID: <20030123115757.V9726-100000@magnesium.cs.washington.edu> Hi, There is an OSDI 2002 paper on P2P backup - Pastiche http://mobility.eecs.umich.edu/papers/osdi02-preprint.pdf --Stefan On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Zainul M Charbiwala wrote: > > Hi all, > > Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based > distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? > > The idea had been inspired some time ago looking for a creative > pasttime while reading up on design of Autonomous Software Agents. (No, > not clippy-like). At the time, I didn't have much info about P2P either, > and the project tapered off into into void. > > Reading the recent imaginative article on Curious Yellow > (http://blanu.net/curious_yellow.html), has re-instilled some enthusiasm > to pick up that project again. > > Before I restart though, I would like some suggestions on design and > security. What I'm specifically looking for are some rough guidelines, dos > and donts, for general P2P app design. > > Thanks, > > Zainul. > > > > -- > It is insufficient to protect ourselves with laws. > We need to protect ourselves with mathematics. > - Applied Cryptography > > _______________________________________________ > p2p-hackers mailing list > p2p-hackers@zgp.org > http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > From blanu at bozonics.com Thu Jan 23 12:18:01 2003 From: blanu at bozonics.com (Brandon Wiley) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: <20030123203333.3b486408.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> Message-ID: > Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based > distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? For a while I was pitching the idea of small-scale peer-to-peer networks for redundant data storage, kind of like RAID only entirely in software and distributed across multiple machines. People often get very excited about this kind of thing, but it doesn't currently seem to exist in a production-quality form. There are several companies that I've run into who claim to be working on such a product. permabit is one. The others seem to have disappeared or are not advertising their product yet. > Reading the recent imaginative article on Curious Yellow > (http://blanu.net/curious_yellow.html), has re-instilled some enthusiasm > to pick up that project again. Heh. > Before I restart though, I would like some suggestions on design and > security. What I'm specifically looking for are some rough guidelines, dos > and donts, for general P2P app design. Wow, that's a broad subject. I think my number one tip is don't reinvent everything yourself. Go for reusable component and interoperability. From lgonze at panix.com Thu Jan 23 12:55:01 2003 From: lgonze at panix.com (Lucas Gonze) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: <20030123203333.3b486408.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> Message-ID: Zainul wrote: > Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based > distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? What's an agent in this context? Thanks. - Lucas From sah at thalassocracy.org Thu Jan 23 13:24:01 2003 From: sah at thalassocracy.org (Steven Hazel) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup References: Message-ID: <3E305D67.7516BDF7@thalassocracy.org> Lucas Gonze wrote: > > Zainul wrote: > > Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based > > distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? > > What's an agent in this context? I think that, in this context, "agent" means "program". So "autonomous agent based" means "decentralized". -- Steven Hazel sah@thalassocracy.org From jbone at deepfile.com Thu Jan 23 14:40:02 2003 From: jbone at deepfile.com (Jeff Bone) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7F48B32A-2F11-11D7-8FF2-00039366B36A@deepfile.com> On Thursday, Jan 23, 2003, at 14:02 US/Central, Brandon Wiley wrote: > >> Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based >> distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? > > For a while I was pitching the idea of small-scale peer-to-peer > networks > for redundant data storage, kind of like RAID only entirely in software > and distributed across multiple machines. People often get very excited > about this kind of thing, but it doesn't currently seem to exist in a > production-quality form. There are several companies that I've run into > who claim to be working on such a product. permabit is one. The others > seem to have disappeared or are not advertising their product yet. There were a large number of these plays (i.e. commercial companies doing this) a couple of years ago; almost without exception they folded. Even worse track record were the "global file system" companies and projects. (NB: narrowly missed becoming one of those myself; thankfully, lack of capital forced me to talk to customers for, like, 18 months. ;-) Bottom line: enterprises need hub-and-spoke --- at least, they don't understand anything else --- and commercial software vendors sell to enterprises. If this idea (p2p storage, backup, etc.) is going to take root somewhere and blossom, it's going to have to be (a) an open source project, and (b) eventually mainstreamed into various OS distros. You might want to check this project out: it seems to still be a going concern: http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~emin/source_code/dibs/ jb From mccoy at hivecache.com Thu Jan 23 14:40:03 2003 From: mccoy at hivecache.com (Jim McCoy) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: <20030123203333.3b486408.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> Message-ID: On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 07:03 AM, Zainul M Charbiwala wrote: > > Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based > distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? Why yes indeed. HiveCache (http://www.hivecache.com/) is a p2p distributed backup product that is based upon the original work we did for MojoNation and forked off in the direction of an enterprise backup product. It turns out that delivering a stable backup mesh within the relatively controlled/reliable environment of an enterprise network (the micorpayment/resource-allocation roots of MN also offer us an option of providing a retail/consumer version at a future date.) There are lots of benefits that such a system can offer, provided you can reach a certain critical-mass of agents and have a certain level of data redundancy among the nodes. Jim McCoy HiveCache, Inc. From blanu at bozonics.com Thu Jan 23 15:33:01 2003 From: blanu at bozonics.com (Brandon Wiley) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: <7F48B32A-2F11-11D7-8FF2-00039366B36A@deepfile.com> Message-ID: > Bottom line: enterprises need hub-and-spoke --- at least, they don't > understand anything else --- and commercial software vendors sell to > enterprises. If this idea (p2p storage, backup, etc.) is going to take > root somewhere and blossom, it's going to have to be (a) an open source > project, and (b) eventually mainstreamed into various OS distros. I don't think this is the real problem. A number of people have approached me after talks and asked where they could acquire just this sort of application. It seems to that "enterprises" do want this kind of thing, but that no one is offering it. Peer-to-peer technologies met people trying to sell things to enterprises right as this sector of the economy imploded. Big companies are certainly hooked on high-end hardware solutions for hot-swappable RAID drives. Peer-to-peer backup is perfect for all of the smaller/cheaper businesses that want something similar but with cheap white boxes linked with ethernet. From lgonze at panix.com Thu Jan 23 15:58:01 2003 From: lgonze at panix.com (Lucas Gonze) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You're shipping a fully decentralized backup system? You have it deployed at customer sites? Did I read that correctly? Reaching a certain critical mass of agents and having a certain level of redundancy are not small problems. > Why yes indeed. HiveCache (http://www.hivecache.com/) is a p2p > distributed backup product that is based upon the original work we did > for MojoNation and forked off in the direction of an enterprise backup > product. It turns out that delivering a stable backup mesh within the > relatively controlled/reliable environment of an enterprise network > (the micorpayment/resource-allocation roots of MN also offer us an > option of providing a retail/consumer version at a future date.) There > are lots of benefits that such a system can offer, provided you can > reach a certain critical-mass of agents and have a certain level of > data redundancy among the nodes. > > Jim McCoy > HiveCache, Inc. From mccoy at hivecache.com Thu Jan 23 17:51:01 2003 From: mccoy at hivecache.com (Jim McCoy) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: <7F48B32A-2F11-11D7-8FF2-00039366B36A@deepfile.com> Message-ID: <1E198A6B-2F27-11D7-9CC2-000393071F50@hivecache.com> On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 12:30 PM, Jeff Bone wrote: [...] > Bottom line: enterprises need hub-and-spoke --- at least, they don't understand anything else --- and > commercial software vendors sell to enterprises. Given the number of Fortune 500 companies that have enrolled in our pilot test program I have to call you on this claim. The IT departments of most major enterprises (and increasingly at small and medium-sized enterprises) always have at least a handful of well-read and smart admins who can understand sophisticated architectures and even the dimmest bulb understands things like cost savings and recovering under-utilized resources. In fact, given the diminishing IT budget for large capital expenditures we have found more traction that we expected by offering a low-cost, application-level software package. Jim McCoy HiveCache, Inc. From zainul at ee.iitb.ac.in Thu Jan 23 21:58:01 2003 From: zainul at ee.iitb.ac.in (Zainul M Charbiwala) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: References: <20030123203333.3b486408.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> Message-ID: <20030124112404.7e107ca6.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:46:17 -0500 (EST) Lucas Gonze wrote: | |Zainul wrote: |> Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based |> distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? | |What's an agent in this context? I have to confess that the idea for distributed backup started more when I was exploring uses for Autonomous Intelligent Software Agents (http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/97055.html) than P2P. The idea was as to set up an environment on each node on the distributed network. This environment would provide a platform for a resident automaton, henceforth called an agent, to contact other agents on the network to use their services. These environments also allow roaming agents to visit nodes on the network and either render some service or request for one. Agents build social understandings wth each other and render services (including whether a roaming, mobile agent is allowed to visit that node or not) to each other based on their relationships. Data backup was one creative service that I thought up. There are obviously many more. (One of these services may be the Curious Yellow/Blue Worm, I mentioned earlier). I felt initially that agents would be OT on this list but I guess that peer-to-peer has a major role to play here atleast in terms of theories and technique reuse since these distributed agents are nothing but decentralised P2P applications, IMHO. Due to the completely autonomous way in which they interact, and due to the fact that remote execution is possible, a strong security mechanism must be in place to ensure no hanky-panky. This is probably the first place that I require help for this design. Back to our backup app. The hub and spoke arch mentioned by Jeff is a reality. (I need now to reevaluate my own opinions based on the comments posted by Jim). The initial idea for this distributed idea that I started to call GetAFix (after the Asterix & Obelix character) was to have such a hub and spoke arch. There ought to be a 'backup server' and 'backup clients'. Each backup client has this special environment where agents are allowed to visit. The agent that I called GetAFix is 'released' periodically by the server to each node. The agent takes with it configuration regarding what needs to be backed up from that node. The agent returns to home base with a package that contains the data needs to be backed up. The whole process must of course be non-intrusive to other applications, and to users. Users must be required only to register once with their service and list out directories/files that they feel are important to them. On to security now : The data that is stored on the server must be encrypted. The key for this encryption must remain with the client node, and not with the server. This is so that even if the server is compromised, the data is not. Thus, the data package that the agent brings back from the client node must be encrypted already. But, the agent must have access to this key, to be able to encrypt the data in the first place. But if the server is compromised, the agent can be reprogrammed only to get access to the key. This situation can be handled in two ways : a) The encryption that is done at the node is a service that is rendered by the the local agent. The local agent only has access to the key so the key and hence the data is never compromised. b) GetAFix comes with a certified signature. This signature is recomputed by the environment at the node. If the node finds that the signature has changed, it decides that something is wrong, and doesn't host GetAFix. Unfortunately, both these approaches have their problems. a) If the key only resides at the client node, in case of a crash (that is what backups are for anyways, right?), the key is lost and so is the data. The only way out of this is that a copy of the key be maintained safely in the user's locker. b) If the admin would like to update GetAFix's functionality, or if a patch is available that allows it to operate better, then the signature changes. The client node would detect this change and disallow the code to run. The only way out of this is to distribute these signatures out-of-band, in some other secure manner (which is as transparent as the rest of the system). Its obvious that the above approaches don't come close to ideal at all. I solicit some responses to my rambling in the hope of getting closer to a better approach. Thanks, Zainul. | |Thanks. | |- Lucas | | |_______________________________________________ |p2p-hackers mailing list |p2p-hackers@zgp.org |http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers -- It is insufficient to protect ourselves with laws. We need to protect ourselves with mathematics. - Applied Cryptography From rajesh at infoglyptic.com Thu Jan 23 22:19:02 2003 From: rajesh at infoglyptic.com (Rajesh Acharya) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: <20030124112404.7e107ca6.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> References: <20030123203333.3b486408.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> <20030124112404.7e107ca6.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> Message-ID: <03012412093002.12355@pc70.ig.com> Hello Zainul, I was wondering if you have come across AIsland a framework for developing and deploying agents with a P2P approach. You may find more info at the project site at http://aisland.jxta.org Mat Deitrich's project has done substantial progress in implementing the concept using java implementation of JXTA. Hope this helps. Rajesh On Friday 24 January 2003 11:24, Zainul M Charbiwala wrote: > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:46:17 -0500 (EST) > > Lucas Gonze wrote: > |Zainul wrote: > |> Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based > |> distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? > | > |What's an agent in this context? > > I have to confess that the idea for distributed backup started more when I > was exploring uses for Autonomous Intelligent Software Agents > (http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/97055.html) than P2P. > > The idea was as to set up an environment on each node on the distributed > network. This environment would provide a platform for a resident > automaton, henceforth called an agent, to contact other agents on the > network to use their services. These environments also allow roaming > agents to visit nodes on the network and either render some service or > request for one. Agents build social understandings wth each other and > render services (including whether a roaming, mobile agent is allowed to > visit that node or not) to each other based on their relationships. > > Data backup was one creative service that I thought up. There are > obviously many more. (One of these services may be the Curious > Yellow/Blue Worm, I mentioned earlier). > > I felt initially that agents would be OT on this list but I guess that > peer-to-peer has a major role to play here atleast in terms of theories > and technique reuse since these distributed agents are nothing but > decentralised P2P applications, IMHO. > > Due to the completely autonomous way in which they interact, and due to > the fact that remote execution is possible, a strong security mechanism > must be in place to ensure no hanky-panky. This is probably the first > place that I require help for this design. > > > Back to our backup app. > > The hub and spoke arch mentioned by Jeff is a reality. (I need now to > reevaluate my own opinions based on the comments posted by Jim). > > The initial idea for this distributed idea that I started to call GetAFix > (after the Asterix & Obelix character) was to have such a hub and spoke > arch. There ought to be a 'backup server' and 'backup clients'. Each > backup client has this special environment where agents are allowed to > visit. > > The agent that I called GetAFix is 'released' periodically by the server > to each node. The agent takes with it configuration regarding what needs > to be backed up from that node. The agent returns to home base with a > package that contains the data needs to be backed up. > > The whole process must of course be non-intrusive to other applications, > and to users. Users must be required only to register once with their > service and list out directories/files that they feel are important to > them. > > > On to security now : The data that is stored on the server must be > encrypted. The key for this encryption must remain with the client > node, and not with the server. This is so that even if the server is > compromised, the data is not. Thus, the data package that the agent > brings back from the client node must be encrypted already. > > But, the agent must have access to this key, to be able to encrypt the > data in the first place. But if the server is compromised, the agent can > be reprogrammed only to get access to the key. > > This situation can be handled in two ways : > > a) The encryption that is done at the node is a service that is > rendered by the the local agent. The local agent only has access to the > key so the key and hence the data is never compromised. > > b) GetAFix comes with a certified signature. This signature is recomputed > by the environment at the node. If the node finds that the signature has > changed, it decides that something is wrong, and doesn't host GetAFix. > > Unfortunately, both these approaches have their problems. > > a) If the key only resides at the client node, in case of a crash (that is > what backups are for anyways, right?), the key is lost and so is the data. > The only way out of this is that a copy of the key be maintained safely in > the user's locker. > > b) If the admin would like to update GetAFix's functionality, or if a > patch is available that allows it to operate better, then the signature > changes. The client node would detect this change and disallow the code to > run. The only way out of this is to distribute these signatures > out-of-band, in some other secure manner (which is as transparent as the > rest of the system). > > Its obvious that the above approaches don't come close to ideal at all. I > solicit some responses to my rambling in the hope of getting closer to a > better approach. > > Thanks, > > Zainul. > -- Web URL : http://www.linuxbee.com http://www.moldforum.com From zainul at ee.iitb.ac.in Fri Jan 24 02:09:01 2003 From: zainul at ee.iitb.ac.in (Zainul M Charbiwala) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] P2P Distributed Backup In-Reply-To: <03012412093002.12355@pc70.ig.com> References: <20030123203333.3b486408.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> <20030124112404.7e107ca6.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> <03012412093002.12355@pc70.ig.com> Message-ID: <20030124153535.2f7ddbfa.zainul@ee.iitb.ac.in> : On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:09:30 +0530 Rajesh Acharya wrote: |Hello Zainul, |I was wondering if you have come across AIsland a framework for developing |and deploying agents with a P2P approach. |You may find more info at the project site at http://aisland.jxta.org Thanks for the info. I went through the description and explanation. But I think I missed the whole point. Is there some resource which explains how AIsland works without going into details of Java classes ? I apologize for I'm not too much of a Java hacker. Is the C implementation of JXTA stable for use now ? Zainul. |Mat Deitrich's project has done substantial progress in implementing the |concept using java implementation of JXTA. | |Hope this helps. | |Rajesh | |On Friday 24 January 2003 11:24, Zainul M Charbiwala wrote: |> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:46:17 -0500 (EST) |> |> Lucas Gonze wrote: |> |Zainul wrote: |> |> Has anyone worked on or explored the use of autonomous agent based |> |> distributed data backup using P2P techniques ? |> | |> |What's an agent in this context? |> |> I have to confess that the idea for distributed backup started more when I |> was exploring uses for Autonomous Intelligent Software Agents |> (http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/97055.html) than P2P. |> |> The idea was as to set up an environment on each node on the distributed |> network. This environment would provide a platform for a resident |> automaton, henceforth called an agent, to contact other agents on the |> network to use their services. These environments also allow roaming |> agents to visit nodes on the network and either render some service or |> request for one. Agents build social understandings wth each other and |> render services (including whether a roaming, mobile agent is allowed to |> visit that node or not) to each other based on their relationships. |> |> Data backup was one creative service that I thought up. There are |> obviously many more. (One of these services may be the Curious |> Yellow/Blue Worm, I mentioned earlier). |> |> I felt initially that agents would be OT on this list but I guess that |> peer-to-peer has a major role to play here atleast in terms of theories |> and technique reuse since these distributed agents are nothing but |> decentralised P2P applications, IMHO. |> |> Due to the completely autonomous way in which they interact, and due to |> the fact that remote execution is possible, a strong security mechanism |> must be in place to ensure no hanky-panky. This is probably the first |> place that I require help for this design. |> |> |> Back to our backup app. |> |> The hub and spoke arch mentioned by Jeff is a reality. (I need now to |> reevaluate my own opinions based on the comments posted by Jim). |> |> The initial idea for this distributed idea that I started to call GetAFix |> (after the Asterix & Obelix character) was to have such a hub and spoke |> arch. There ought to be a 'backup server' and 'backup clients'. Each |> backup client has this special environment where agents are allowed to |> visit. |> |> The agent that I called GetAFix is 'released' periodically by the server |> to each node. The agent takes with it configuration regarding what needs |> to be backed up from that node. The agent returns to home base with a |> package that contains the data needs to be backed up. |> |> The whole process must of course be non-intrusive to other applications, |> and to users. Users must be required only to register once with their |> service and list out directories/files that they feel are important to |> them. |> |> |> On to security now : The data that is stored on the server must be |> encrypted. The key for this encryption must remain with the client |> node, and not with the server. This is so that even if the server is |> compromised, the data is not. Thus, the data package that the agent |> brings back from the client node must be encrypted already. |> |> But, the agent must have access to this key, to be able to encrypt the |> data in the first place. But if the server is compromised, the agent can |> be reprogrammed only to get access to the key. |> |> This situation can be handled in two ways : |> |> a) The encryption that is done at the node is a service that is |> rendered by the the local agent. The local agent only has access to the |> key so the key and hence the data is never compromised. |> |> b) GetAFix comes with a certified signature. This signature is recomputed |> by the environment at the node. If the node finds that the signature has |> changed, it decides that something is wrong, and doesn't host GetAFix. |> |> Unfortunately, both these approaches have their problems. |> |> a) If the key only resides at the client node, in case of a crash (that is |> what backups are for anyways, right?), the key is lost and so is the data. |> The only way out of this is that a copy of the key be maintained safely in |> the user's locker. |> |> b) If the admin would like to update GetAFix's functionality, or if a |> patch is available that allows it to operate better, then the signature |> changes. The client node would detect this change and disallow the code to |> run. The only way out of this is to distribute these signatures |> out-of-band, in some other secure manner (which is as transparent as the |> rest of the system). |> |> Its obvious that the above approaches don't come close to ideal at all. I |> solicit some responses to my rambling in the hope of getting closer to a |> better approach. |> |> Thanks, |> |> Zainul. |> | |-- |Web URL : |http://www.linuxbee.com |http://www.moldforum.com |_______________________________________________ |p2p-hackers mailing list |p2p-hackers@zgp.org |http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers -- It is insufficient to protect ourselves with laws. We need to protect ourselves with mathematics. - Applied Cryptography From chuang at SIMS.Berkeley.EDU Wed Jan 29 07:49:01 2003 From: chuang at SIMS.Berkeley.EDU (John Chuang) Date: Sat Dec 9 22:12:05 2006 Subject: [p2p-hackers] CFP: Workshop on Economics of P2P Systems Message-ID: <3E36C849.D123882C@sims.berkeley.edu> Please accept my apology if you receive multiple copies of this message. John -- Workshop on Economics of Peer-to-Peer Systems Berkeley, California June 5-6 2003 http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/p2pecon