Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5D3C002B for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:24:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626FF60B22 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:24:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 626FF60B22 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fagYrdGxnU6w for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:24:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 7721860B20 Received: from smtpout3.mo529.mail-out.ovh.net (smtpout3.mo529.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.54.81]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7721860B20 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:24:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mxplan6.mail.ovh.net (unknown [10.108.4.35]) by mo529.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 913E021300; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:23:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from peersm.com (37.59.142.95) by DAG6EX2.mxp6.local (172.16.2.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2507.21; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:23:58 +0100 Authentication-Results: garm.ovh; auth=pass (GARM-95G001e11f0754-7dc0-410d-8b36-0ae290800d54, 949A8BEAD4A2FAD2FDEFB5BC320DD40585BCB0A5) smtp.auth=aymeric@peersm.com X-OVh-ClientIp: 92.184.112.130 To: Russell O'Connor , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , Peter Todd , Andrew Poelstra , Christopher Allen References: <57f780b1-f262-9394-036c-70084320e9cf@peersm.com> <3d00aacb-585d-f875-784d-34352860d725@peersm.com> <230265ee-c3f8-dff3-9192-f0c8dc4d913c@peersm.com> <76718304-A8E3-46E6-B2F7-DE86831F15DF@petertodd.org> From: Aymeric Vitte Message-ID: <228e8706-72c7-8d5f-b6fb-c71a2e56efde@peersm.com> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:23:55 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E8A61B047D8B040BD7A3999B" X-Originating-IP: [37.59.142.95] X-ClientProxiedBy: DAG8EX2.mxp6.local (172.16.2.72) To DAG6EX2.mxp6.local (172.16.2.52) X-Ovh-Tracer-GUID: 597ae244-d258-42eb-8c27-a92cc24d4d99 X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 8412442632155653027 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -100 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrudeijedguddutdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtghisegrtderredtfeehnecuhfhrohhmpeethihmvghrihgtucggihhtthgvuceorgihmhgvrhhitgesphgvvghrshhmrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeetheefvddvhefftdfhjedvtdejjeeiteduveelieekudevvddtleevveeftefgfeenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhlihhnuhigfhhouhhnuggrthhiohhnrdhorhhgpdhpvggvrhhsmhdrtghomhdplhhinhhkvgguihhnrdgtohhmnecukfhppeduvdejrddtrddtrddupdefjedrheelrddugedvrdelheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpeduvdejrddtrddtrddupdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoegrhihmvghrihgtsehpvggvrhhsmhdrtghomheqpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedupdhrtghpthhtohepvehhrhhishhtohhphhgvrhetsehlihhfvgifihhthhgrlhgrtghrihhthidrtghomhdprghpohgvlhhsthhrrgesfihpshhofhhtfigrrhgvrdhnvghtpdhpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghdpsghithgtohhinhdquggvvheslhhishhtshdrlhhinhhugihfohhunhgurghtihhonh drohhrghdprhhotghonhhnohhrsegslhhotghkshhtrhgvrghmrdgtohhmpdfovfetjfhoshhtpehmohehvdelpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuth X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:29:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE OP_IF OP_PUSH X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:24:04 -0000 --------------E8A61B047D8B040BD7A3999B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's super unclear how long it could take for such a change to be adopted= Then the answer is simple, see: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-= to-the-80b-op_return-limitation Outstandingly, very, mega, bad, but working, bringing bitcoin back 10 years ago But why not? If bitcoin folks don't get that we need a 1tx storage solution for the future, then let's bring back bitcoin into the past and destroy coins Le 12/02/2023 =E0 17:23, Aymeric Vitte a =E9crit : > > https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403= > > "What is the process to have someone do the PR for this? Or I do it > and most likely it will be a very shxtty one since I am not a C/C++ > expert, then wasting the time of everybody > > It's urgently required, I did consider OP_RETURN as a dart in the past > but changed my mind, it's adapted to the current evolutions, not > flooding bitcoin with 2 txs while only 1 is needed > > If not the best 1 tx solution is super simple: store in addresses, and > super bad at the end because burning bitcoins, while still not > expensive if you don't need to store big things" > > > Le 05/02/2023 =E0 19:12, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev a =E9crit : >> >> >> On Sat., Feb. 4, 2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00, Russell O'Connor via >> bitcoin-dev > > wrote: >> >Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than bytes in the script >> pubkey, >> >there is a crossover point in data size where it will simply be >> cheaper to >> >use witness data. Where that crossover point is depends on the >> finer >> >details of the overhead of the two methods, but you could make so= me >> >reasonable assumptions. Such a calculation could form the basis >> of a >> >reasonable OP_RETURN proposal. I don't know if it would be >> persuasive, but >> >it would at least be coherent. >> >> I don't think it's worth the technical complexity trying to >> carefully argue a specific limit. Let users decide for themselves >> how they want to use OpReturn. >> >> >> Even better. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --=20 > Sophia-Antipolis, France > CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf > LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26 > GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms > A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/= Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7 > A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a= 3beed1bfeba7 > Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/walle= t > Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-trans= actions > torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live > node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor > Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live= =2Epeersm.com > Peersm : http://www.peersm.com --=20 Sophia-Antipolis, France CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26 GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ay= ms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7 A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3b= eed1bfeba7 Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transac= tions torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.p= eersm.com Peersm : http://www.peersm.com --------------E8A61B047D8B040BD7A3999B Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

It's super unclear how long it could take for such a change to be adopted

Then the answer is simple, see: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation

Outstandingly, very, mega, bad, but working, bringing bitcoin back 10 years ago

But why not? If bitcoin folks don't get that we need a 1tx storage solution for the future, then let's bring back bitcoin into the past and destroy coins

Le 12/02/2023 à 17:23, Aymeric Vitte a écrit :

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403

"What is the process to have someone do the PR for this? Or I do it and most likely it will be a very shxtty one since I am not a C/C++ expert, then wasting the time of everybody

It's urgently required, I did consider OP_RETURN as a dart in the past but changed my mind, it's adapted to the current evolutions, not flooding bitcoin with 2 txs while only 1 is needed

If not the best 1 tx solution is super simple: store in addresses, and super bad at the end because burning bitcoins, while still not expensive if you don't need to store big things"


Le 05/02/2023 à 19:12, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev a écrit :


On Sat., Feb. 4, 2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:


On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than bytes in the script pubkey,
>there is a crossover point in data size where it will simply be cheaper to
>use witness data.  Where that crossover point is depends on the finer
>details of the overhead of the two methods, but you could make some
>reasonable assumptions.  Such a calculation could form the basis of a
>reasonable OP_RETURN proposal.  I don't know if it would be persuasive, but
>it would at least be coherent.

I don't think it's worth the technical complexity trying to carefully argue a specific limit. Let users decide for themselves how they want to use OpReturn.

Even better.


_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com

-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
--------------E8A61B047D8B040BD7A3999B--