From: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>
Content-Type: multipart/signed;
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_9608400D-3F6C-4DA2-B9BD-0446D054960D";
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\))
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:52:24 +0100
References: <CAJR7vkqcBo+o9BL8sK1TBqqNUNSMWdut_aL_YMXse8rDC2ju9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20171213213607.ijlvqwpdaokucgi6@fedora-23-dvm>
To: "David A. Harding" <dave@dtrt.org>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
In-Reply-To: <20171213213607.ijlvqwpdaokucgi6@fedora-23-dvm>
Message-Id: <B8087CB6-CBF7-43C6-8368-9E98523FB68B@sprovoost.nl>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Utilization of bits denomination
Precedence: list


--Apple-Mail=_9608400D-3F6C-4DA2-B9BD-0446D054960D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=utf-8

As much as I love SI standards, "trains users to understand SI prefixes, =
allowing them to
easily migrate from one prefix to the next" seems unrealistic. The =
metric system is about to
have its 220th birthday and people in the US still don't use it.

It makes sense to embrace terms that stick. "bits" as a =
formal-yet-informal alias for =C2=B5BTC makes sense to me, unless =
someone can point to another term that's already commonly used.

I'm not too worried about the word bit having other meanings in common =
language. The word "bit coin" was introduced in the English language =
without a problem. A "bit" being 1 millionth of a "bit coin" doesn't =
seem too difficult. It will give a while new meaning to the expression =
"a bit expensive" :-)

Rather than nano-bitcoin, I would suggest milli bits.


It's rather unfortunate that 1 satoshi was defined as 10^-8 BTC instead =
of 10^-9. We could redefine satoshi to 10^-9 BTC. Then we can use =
kilo-satoshi instead of bits. Then the next step can be satoshi, =
followed by millisatoshi (you never know).

The smallest amount that can be handled by bitcoin software under this =
redefinition would be 10 satoshi rather than 1; mostly a matter of =
changing some source code comments.

The only place where I've seen the unit "satoshi" used is fee =
estimators. I think it's still early enough that people aren't terribly =
attached to the numbers shown on those sites (most people express fees =
in fiat terms, especially when complaining). We could switch from vbytes =
to weight units at the same time.

Sjors

> Op 13 dec. 2017, om 22:36 heeft David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> het volgende geschreven:
>=20
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 01:46:09PM -0600, Jimmy Song via bitcoin-dev =
wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>=20
>> I am proposing an informational BIP to standardize the term "bits". =
The
>> term has been around a while, but having some formal informational =
standard
>> helps give structure to how the term is used.
>>=20
>> =
https://github.com/jimmysong/bips/blob/unit-bias/bip-unit-bias.mediawiki
>=20
> Wallets and other software is already using this term, so I think it's =
a
> good idea to ensure its usage is normalized.
>=20
> That said, I think the term is unnecessary and confusing given that
> microbitcoins provides all of the same advantages and at least two
> additional advantages:
>=20
> - Microbitcoins is not a homonym for any other word in English (and
>  probably not in any other language), whereas "bit" and "bits" have
>  more than a dozen homonyms in English---some of which are quite =
common
>  in general currency usage, Bitcoin currency usage, or Bitcoin
>  technical usage.
>=20
> - Microbitcoins trains users to understand SI prefixes, allowing them =
to
>  easily migrate from one prefix to the next.  This will be important
>  when bitcoin prices rise to $10M USD[1] and the bits denomination has
>  the same problems the millibitcoin denomination has now, but it's =
also
>  useful in the short term when interacting with users who make very
>  large payments (bitcoin-scale) or very small payments
>  (nanobitcoin-scale).[2]  Maybe a table of scale can emphasize this
>  point:
>=20
>      Wrong (IMO):        Right (IMO):
>      ---------------     --------------
>      BTC                 BTC
>      mBTC                mBTC
>      bits                =C2=B5BTC
>      nBTC                nBTC
>=20
> [1] A rise in price to $10M doesn't require huge levels of growth---it
> only requires time under the assumption that a percentage of bitcoins =
will
> be lost every year due to wallet mishaps, failure to inherit bitcoins,
> and other issues that remove bitcoins from circulation.  In other =
words,
> it's important to remember that Bitcoin is expected to become a
> deflationary currency and plan accordingly.
>=20
> [2] Although Bitcoin does not currently support committed
> nanobitcoin-scale payments in the block chain, it can be supported in =
a
> variety of ways by offchain systems---including (it is hypothesized)
> trustless systems based on probabilistic payments.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> -Dave
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


--Apple-Mail=_9608400D-3F6C-4DA2-B9BD-0446D054960D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename=signature.asc
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature;
	name=signature.asc
Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=hVEQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Apple-Mail=_9608400D-3F6C-4DA2-B9BD-0446D054960D--