Return-Path: <naama.kates@gmail.com> Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C200D22DB for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:40:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pa0-f46.google.com (mail-pa0-f46.google.com [209.85.220.46]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02CC91B9 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:40:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pacfv12 with SMTP id fv12so223336677pac.2 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 12:40:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jX6yigcpHhk0MMTDdPrwpaXB4iVPDo3+piWptXEQW0E=; b=jREON1zLD0Dmue7tOzfAwqwkA6Mn8L9BKt7ywSBPa1hregket8lyoCXxOFfkDdDswI /axobI02cizdMjOYBZpID5clbX5tDh08oO1f9tyG1G+jHKxKER/GTHB2r0MQ2NYvBvox 8m/C3gc6/Jf0F8W1GAPe7Cteyz3WlmuUo619dRTsgO6Pek5vCErLemSJ0RRr/1TMjRF1 Hl07JIv30ATUghLI94khdTiJDnrPojOpueG08AQ0P9oGwveNnpSD5byO0CLMY8zVsysl rlh6HS8qhIsbOq2h3txIny7FjYEGX9rhgYl04PM2EgUIUncHwcoIqebqGkG/veG9qrx2 402g== X-Received: by 10.67.12.166 with SMTP id er6mr48439962pad.40.1444160426550; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 12:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.6] (cpe-76-91-152-174.socal.res.rr.com. [76.91.152.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id mk5sm35271229pab.44.2015.10.06.12.40.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 06 Oct 2015 12:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6EDAE9CD-6FBA-40A8-9C64-4DDBC29580BB Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: naama.kates@gmail.com X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12A405) In-Reply-To: <CAKfs=Z-P+ni1nYOqZvP7HGzp3ERa_hHk=VQQzo0o+8_n6FHf0w@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 12:40:25 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <B03B9E2B-3B07-4C1B-9AF1-9BAB78B21770@gmail.com> References: <trinity-4a10aebe-091a-4dac-bdac-36384ef9df63-1444115834646@3capp-mailcom-bs03> <em15654dcc-2b93-4166-9464-bd2b7f322616@platinum> <CAAUq484f_fb2WJY7YvW+urV_pPw3FKA6OhXUBDDHUfqp6bcSWQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAKfs=Z-P+ni1nYOqZvP7HGzp3ERa_hHk=VQQzo0o+8_n6FHf0w@mail.gmail.com> To: NotMike Hearn <not.mike.hearn@gmail.com> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] This thread is not about the soft/hard fork technical debate X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 19:40:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail-6EDAE9CD-6FBA-40A8-9C64-4DDBC29580BB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just read the proposal for the dual modes... Think it would be best... Proto= col question? Do we discuss the algorithms here on this forum? Or... Sorry again for my thick skull! Nina K Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 6, 2015, at 1:34 AM, NotMike Hearn via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lis= ts.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >=20 > I think I can solve the debate and give everyone what they want. >=20 > Some people want BIP65, others do not. >=20 > We can roll out 65 in a clever way, such that Greg/PeterT can get it, but M= ike and Peter R don't need to have it (both versions can run alongside each o= ther). Even better, people can switch back and forth between versions as muc= h as they like. >=20 > How might this work? Well, paradoxically, we could do this by *imposing ad= ditional constraints* on transaction validation, such that transactions made= a very specific certain way will always look valid to non-CLTVers, but for C= LTVers they will not be valid unless the CLTV rules are followed. The obviou= s concern is that non-CLTV people might receive invalid payments. However, t= heir software is already set up to request payments in a non-CLTV way, so, l= uckily, this is actually not a problem at all! SPV clients can elect to only= connect to nodes which are non-CLTV. >=20 > Problem solved! >=20 > I am happy to have solved this problem for you all, and ended this discord= harmoniously. If we all put our heads together, these words of founding fat= her Aretha Franklin will ring true: "there's nothing we can't overcome". >=20 >=20 >> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Marcel Jamin via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev= @lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >> This is childish and very disappointing to see. >>=20 >> 2015-10-06 9:20 GMT+02:00 Eric Lombrozo via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@list= s.linuxfoundation.org>: >>> I prefer the term "clown". >>>=20 >>> Can we please move on? >>>=20 >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "cipher anthem via bitcoin-dev" <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation= .org> >>> To: milly@bitcoins.info >>> Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>> Sent: 10/6/2015 12:17:14 AM >>> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] This thread is not about the soft/hard fork t= echnical debate >>>=20 >>>>> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 at 8:21 PM >>>>> From: "Milly Bitcoin via bitcoin-dev" <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat= ion.org> >>>>> To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] This thread is not about the soft/hard for= k technical debate >>>>>> On 10/5/2015 4:05 PM, Steven Pine via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>>>>> It's pretty clear Mike has turned into concern troll and bully. >>>>=20 >>>>> "troll" and, even worse, "concern troll" are terms generally used by >>>>> teenagers on places like Reddit to complain about someone who doesn't= >>>>> agree with them. >>>>=20 >>>> They should substitute troll for cultist so they appear more profession= al... >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list >>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >=20 > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev --Apple-Mail-6EDAE9CD-6FBA-40A8-9C64-4DDBC29580BB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D= utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Just read the proposal for the dual mo= des... Think it would be best... Protocol question? Do we discuss the a= lgorithms here on this forum? Or...</div><div><br></div><div>Sorry aga= in for my thick skull!</div><div><br></div><div>Nina K</div><div><br>Sent fr= om my iPhone</div><div><br>On Oct 6, 2015, at 1:34 AM, NotMike Hearn via bit= coin-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoi= n-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type= =3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">I think I can solve the debate and give ever= yone what they want.<br><br>Some people want BIP65, others do not.<br><br>We= can roll out 65 in a clever way, such that Greg/PeterT can get it, but Mike= and Peter R don't need to have it (both versions can run alongside each oth= er). Even better, people can switch back and forth between versions as much a= s they like.<br><br>How might this work? Well, paradoxically, we could do th= is by *imposing additional constraints* on transaction validation, such that= transactions made a very specific certain way will always look valid to non= -CLTVers, but for CLTVers they will not be valid unless the CLTV rules are f= ollowed. The obvious concern is that non-CLTV people might receive invalid p= ayments. However, their software is already set up to request payments in a n= on-CLTV way, so, luckily, this is actually not a problem at all! SPV clients= can elect to only connect to nodes which are non-CLTV.<div><br></div><div>P= roblem solved!<br><br>I am happy to have solved this problem for you all, an= d ended this discord harmoniously. If we all put our heads together, these w= ords of founding father Aretha Franklin will ring true: "there's nothing we c= an't overcome".<br><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Marcel Jamin via bitcoin-de= v <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.= org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> w= rote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border= -left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">This is childish and= very disappointing to see.</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><di= v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015-10-06 9:20 GMT+0= 2:00 Eric Lombrozo via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:b= itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.li= nuxfoundation.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I prefer t= he term "clown".<br> <br> Can we please move on?<br> <br> ------ Original Message ------<br> From: "cipher anthem via bitcoin-dev" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@list= s.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.o= rg</a>><br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:milly@bitcoins.info" target=3D"_blank">milly@bitcoins.= info</a><br> Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blan= k">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> Sent: 10/6/2015 12:17:14 AM<br> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] This thread is not about the soft/hard fork techn= ical debate<br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar= gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 at 8:21 PM<br> From: "Milly Bitcoin via bitcoin-dev" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-de= v@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfounda= tion.org</a>><br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D= "_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] This thread is not about the soft/hard fork= technical debate<br> On 10/5/2015 4:05 PM, Steven Pine via bitcoin-dev wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> It's pretty clear Mike has turned into concern troll and bully.<br> </blockquote></blockquote> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> "troll" and, even worse, "concern troll" are terms generally used by<b= r> teenagers on places like Reddit to complain about someone who doesn't<= br> agree with them.<br> </blockquote> <br> They should substitute troll for cultist so they appear more professional...= <br> _______________________________________________<br> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">b= itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailma= n/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> </blockquote> <br> _______________________________________________<br> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">b= itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailma= n/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> </blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l= inuxfoundation.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" r= el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailma= n/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div> </div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________= ___________________________</span><br><span>bitcoin-dev mailing list</span><= br><span><a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-de= v@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://lists.lin= uxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev">https://lists.linuxfoundation= .org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></= html>= --Apple-Mail-6EDAE9CD-6FBA-40A8-9C64-4DDBC29580BB--