MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <d35dee03-2d19-e80a-c577-2151938f9203@web.de>
In-Reply-To: <d35dee03-2d19-e80a-c577-2151938f9203@web.de>
From: Zac Greenwood <zachgrw@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2021 17:30:22 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJ4-pEDbtGpc4+NrrKga9N79YQjK1=zTEPN9V2G18NEnZ1h1YA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
 Michael Fuhrmann <fuhmic@web.de>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000066084f05c2742872"
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes
 to save 90% of mining energy
Precedence: list

--00000000000066084f05c2742872
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Michael,

Your proposal won=E2=80=99t save any energy because it does nothing to decr=
ease the
budget available to mine a block (being the block reward).

Even if it were technically possible to find a way for nodes to somehow
reach consensus on a hash that gets generated after 9 minutes, all it
achieves is that miners will be expending the entire budget given to them
in the form of the block reward within a single minute on average.

Also please realize that the energy expenditure of Bitcoin is a fundamental
part of its design. An attacker has no other option than to expend as much
as half of all the miners together do in order for a sustained 51% attack
to be successful, making such attack uneconomical.

Zac

On Sat, 15 May 2021 at 23:57, Michael Fuhrmann via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Bitcoin should create blocks every 10 minutes in average. So why do
> miners need to mine the 9 minutes after the last block was found? It's
> not necessary.
>
> Problem: How to prevent "pre-mining" in the 9 minutes time window?
>
> Possible ideas for discussion:
>
> - (maybe most difficult) global network timer sending a salted hash time
> code after 9 minutes. this enables validation by nodes.
>
> - (easy attempt) mining jobs before 9 minutes have a 10 (or 100 or just
> high enough) times higher difficulty. so everyone can mine any time but
> before to 9 minutes are up there will be a too high downside. It is more
> efficient to wait then paying high bills. The bitcoin will get a "puls".
>
>
> I dont think I see all problems behind these ideas but if there is a
> working solution to do so then the energy fud will find it's end. Saving
> energy without loosing rosbustness.
>
>
>
> :)
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

--00000000000066084f05c2742872
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Michael,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">Your proposal won=E2=80=99t save any energy because it does nothing t=
o decrease the budget available to mine a block (being the block reward).</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Even if it were technical=
ly possible to find a way for nodes to somehow reach consensus on a hash th=
at gets generated after 9 minutes, all it achieves is that miners will be e=
xpending the entire budget given to them in the form of the block reward wi=
thin a single minute on average.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Also please realize that the energy expenditure of Bitcoin is a f=
undamental part of its design. An attacker has no other option than to expe=
nd as much as half of all the miners together do in order for a sustained 5=
1% attack to be successful, making such attack uneconomical.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Zac</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 15 May 2021 at 23:57,=
 Michael Fuhrmann via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204)">Hello,<br>
<br>
Bitcoin should create blocks every 10 minutes in average. So why do<br>
miners need to mine the 9 minutes after the last block was found? It&#39;s<=
br>
not necessary.<br>
<br>
Problem: How to prevent &quot;pre-mining&quot; in the 9 minutes time window=
?<br>
<br>
Possible ideas for discussion:<br>
<br>
- (maybe most difficult) global network timer sending a salted hash time<br=
>
code after 9 minutes. this enables validation by nodes.<br>
<br>
- (easy attempt) mining jobs before 9 minutes have a 10 (or 100 or just<br>
high enough) times higher difficulty. so everyone can mine any time but<br>
before to 9 minutes are up there will be a too high downside. It is more<br=
>
efficient to wait then paying high bills. The bitcoin will get a &quot;puls=
&quot;.<br>
<br>
<br>
I dont think I see all problems behind these ideas but if there is a<br>
working solution to do so then the energy fud will find it&#39;s end. Savin=
g<br>
energy without loosing rosbustness.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
:)<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000066084f05c2742872--