Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C227C002F for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:30:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A2D4166C for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:30:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=petertodd.org header.b="JNBjovNG"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="GDqL34yJ" Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hhwtaoFZ6qNm for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:30:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:08:32 by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from new1-smtp.messagingengine.com (new1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.221]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A62E41669 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:30:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailnew.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074FA58032F; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 21:22:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 20 Jan 2022 21:22:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=petertodd.org; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; bh=R6cvXc/leLmiYNuTY4S78FnD8zq34x 3TtAycqvGvWoo=; b=JNBjovNGRK2Y4PnY4MCpnzQJD88TxFj6rCDENXiWB7W5V6 5++bDO/UksRqhVLweMpPag9cmu5DxLNSCMHz/1dU4eKTrOld+iARtRX7iqzmf6it XRdRyVbl6mQSRH/0djd9HdnNrNWAUhU/4RwZMOMQEHHsw/J2Shx1oamkLWt/vi6/ 2iOMwnZ7clD8nKBcvWMwziEJw/pYj/dVnNrpFlKRbrOOeHHGcYaxGE8KhYSisv8t 5ewFil8Sr0var7CvMLYp2ufNRvE2xM2JvdewsDQsLx14s+VTIGDdd0BDi1gWT2JR s0SX1YIWD8eMb05SN15TEnp83fuzWakF4q0P+bDw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=R6cvXc/leLmiYNuTY 4S78FnD8zq34x3TtAycqvGvWoo=; b=GDqL34yJa3T2aS+I3vRNlcssKF5Pm4dRD 99s6ia4C4WUVAPN08lb/hfV9iBhzEVRe7ylnQSxhMziD6ZY3P26YVReh27s+zx34 txvPaGlNvk8ytiHUrfl6n8pZCU0s7OlQCg6NWniEnhC92+gtE9h2t3r09c5LrPBd BlRIyDLTJncK9LltiMssE3jIcpnL8uitFisTI1p2oU+MbNFVSOrgSYYxS5aSTs1s G0Ed6Ls1Iww57e0NlAtWpuLQCIrQTp0owDAQDcnNZWez9jfsLcHT5ic0H+oAPr0t dktvUpjaDp74gQFDlfi88lSXQgP4asNWkNRRY08gOZXOQyCC4+Bbw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrudelgdeghecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcu vfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrh hnpeeivddvleeikeejueekgfdtleefgeehheelffeuheetgefhleevjeefleegvefffeen ucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpe dtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehushgvrhesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhr gh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 21:22:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1126A5FB74; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 21:22:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 21:22:15 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Bram Cohen , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lc8nEl9u8HRavgoQ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: Billy Tetrud Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Covenants and capabilities in the UTXO model X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:30:54 -0000 --lc8nEl9u8HRavgoQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 11:23:30AM -0800, Bram Cohen via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Nodes currently aren't required to keep around the whole blockchain, but > > your proposal sounds like it would require them to. I think this could = be > > pretty detrimental to future scalability. Monero, for example, has a > > situation where its UTXO set is the whole blockchain because you can't > > generally know what has been spent and what hasn't been. Allowing > > references to old blocks would pull in all this old block data into the > > UTXO set. So unless you're very careful about how or when you can refer= ence > > old blocks, this could cause issues. > > >=20 > Don't full nodes by definition have to have the whole chain? This does ma= ke > pruned nodes difficult, but it could also have rules like you can only > point back so far. "you can only point back so far" leads to transactions becoming invalid, wh= ich is something we've always strictly avoided because it can result in huge problems during reorgs with transactions being unable to be included in a n= ew change. That's exactly why transaction expiry proposals have been shot down over and over again. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --lc8nEl9u8HRavgoQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmHqGNAACgkQLly11TVR Lzckyg//S+KvFFxThm4OQxLEyMGRVIeQTgnqBG0H4uRPAEsohmkhbOIkOx+FWu8l saV0LyQaaq0vn0WYhDSmVsbU3x6Lr6Bu4uXBq4BAHUbOG9+Hba/5T5S/u1XYw/Rj jQLgdGnwAUa60pvFSWxGKeJjTnIxGax+XWTCT1/3+dWNsv1lGZunIt3cRhK9rQ94 eZSx0cjRqrnnZIxb1jbLaytSSS/h/G4PiCktOYQT5nNoN4rvjQ31rSGUifK+rWxO r00UjubQhCae34Hfkz2jf4BzWQezRJNSuIdbgdzerMsQ8BrGPBSOwV6glTNw5FiC JzLwGd+B8mFZImS+8Zbgh+BqYznBEUJ/EBGcn1opr7qeXUAN83wvpkvEh78lUIaN rKh2rsVOCCo/oeiqT6/0g2SsQyyTjGorpQGBvI23qfpoKWkrWYcqVJOAwI8S34VZ A6Bih02uCp5C7tObbEcw3pXcIsXoCfc4RdpkOCjxecYCcTKOnf8VldmXXaF0mpba ReWjIji4lzX0fdi4/b5gRVtoPny1VTs+/9GSeTZ8/qrFD8yKeyGQ9h96bcl6Kyas nkhCvgtW4WgzPeM06+00SvBu8hmYYnXlog80A4wKR4oVbWPBuwq2mXiBXfPjxqpg kqiXPH7OesYJSSj1YsjSCmY68FfGrONcr/kbHOJ2X06MbLhXvQE= =Nijo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lc8nEl9u8HRavgoQ--