Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EB178D9 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:30:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-la0-f46.google.com (mail-la0-f46.google.com [209.85.215.46]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 104AF1A2 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:30:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lalv9 with SMTP id v9so2341171lal.0 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:30:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=Q75+ieYLgoDNIdMoDFPAQbO8dnHElSEohqQSS5H8BBw=; b=NgJ9wahN6iE2JkK+/79k8UkMe1FfxaFWvF7kYxTNLfEk/w+OYkAS3ObAIuKR6gOvF4 R30Li/lTTDfV8VW7Q07PSbbJ//XkgfybObMo5Fd/9midT8bnTHPsS6IfmjHNnxFTg29t 29IFtV3e6rT04FJghhU+qMuBgWi7xLo7u4HZt3Lb3nk8UDnGEsUbMdCna0IAoa+SxpT6 892V9zR8K7kevl5PkEYbJ06/xWn4MP/ET2ZHXNhDEvxG+EtAGijEHWgaAhdOa9C6BPUP THFHDg2kQ6hj0kHCtOmcOiBeERkP0BhEfxQi7cz+SbncefOLgaAW/dYkFqZkIkzsihsi U01g== X-Received: by 10.152.36.226 with SMTP id t2mr17661433laj.6.1439159429131; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:30:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.22.25 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 15:30:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55C7D3B4.90004@gmail.com> References: <55C79FF0.8040100@thinlink.com> <55C7CECB.7050905@gmail.com> <55C7D3B4.90004@gmail.com> From: Hector Chu Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 23:30:08 +0100 Message-ID: To: Patrick Strateman Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158b5e68c73a3051ce86a6a X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAD_CREDIT,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What Lightning Is X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:30:32 -0000 --089e0158b5e68c73a3051ce86a6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sorry about that Patrick. Gmail hides previous messages including sender names. Regardless, no worries. On 9 August 2015 at 23:27, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > That was not in reply to you. > > > On 08/09/2015 03:09 PM, Hector Chu wrote: > > Right, you've stated a bunch of facts, but how does it answer my concerns > of the exploding cost of the network the more interconnected it it? > > On 9 August 2015 at 23:06, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> I suspect there is some amount of confusion here on terms. >> >> The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment channels. >> >> The hub's entire business is centered around having payment channels open >> with other hubs/users. >> >> If the hub requires user funds to open these channels... then the users >> have no reason to pay the hub anything in fees. >> >> A hub that doesn't use it's own funds to open payment channels to other >> hubs/merchants is useless. >> >> >> On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote: >> >> On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, "Mark Friedenbach" wrote: >> >> > On the contrary the funds were advanced by the hub on the creation of >> the channel. There is no credit involved. >> >> That's a chuckle. >> >> As I said, nothing requires the hub to advance anything, and if it does, >> Bob can expect to pay for it. >> >> We'll see whether hubs assess a fee for depositing funds, whether the fee >> depends on the amount deposited, and whether it depends on the amount of >> time it stays there. >> >> I predict "all of the above." There is a name for these kinds of fees. >> Can you guess it? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing listbitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.orghttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --089e0158b5e68c73a3051ce86a6a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry about that Patrick. Gmail hides previous messages in= cluding sender names. Regardless, no worries.

On 9 August 2015 at 23:27, Patrick Strate= man via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation= .org> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
That was not in reply to you.


On 08/09/2015 03:09 PM, Hector Chu wrote:
Right, you've stated a bunch of facts, but how d= oes it answer my concerns of the exploding cost of the network the more interconnected it it?

On 9 August 2015 at 23:06, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists= .linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
I suspect there is some amount of confusion here on terms.

The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment channels.

The hub's entire business is centered around having payment channels open with other hubs/users.

If the hub requires user funds to open these channels... then the users have no reason to pay the hub anything in fees.

A hub that doesn't use it's own funds to open payment channels to other hubs/merchants is useless.


On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote:

On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, "Mark Friedenbach" <mark@friedenbach.org> wrote:

> On the contrary the funds were advanced by the hub on the creation of the channel. There is no credit involved.

That's a chuckle.=C2=A0

As I said, nothing requires the hub to advance anything, and if it does, Bob can expect to pay for it.

We'll see whether hubs assess a fee = for depositing funds, whether the fee depends on the amount deposited, and whether it depends on the amount of time it stays there.

I predict "all of the above." = There is a name for these kinds of fees.=C2=A0 Can you guess i= t?



_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoi=
n-dev


_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundat= ion.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev




_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


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