Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
	designates 209.85.192.42 as permitted sender)
	client-ip=209.85.192.42; envelope-from=kompreni@gmail.com;
	helo=mail-qg0-f42.google.com; 
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAAre=yTHLgH=DCVTBZ78MkFVYSTJ3YyV9yZL46nkX1x2RDiQRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150619103959.GA32315@savin.petertodd.org>
	<CAOG=w-u6fmpnojpQmrFEMRK56WDsfhZgm406C3tVax5hsX2sOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACq0ZD5VDJRuKiq2NaPyoJdDVMPd+9YWtEr3pauS5ZNzxXXEig@mail.gmail.com>
	<201506200348.06564.luke@dashjr.org>
	<B7B38239-8EF5-4D12-B3E7-40AE152CF5A3@gmail.com>
	<CAAre=yTHLgH=DCVTBZ78MkFVYSTJ3YyV9yZL46nkX1x2RDiQRA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:38:50 -0700
Message-ID: <CAKdn4uo=RK+PTUDk7x69yK9RoTUG4sU1TPf7rpJqjkfXS5k_kQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Cameron Hejazi <kompreni@gmail.com>
To: Ivan Brightly <ibrightly@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140656a82db6c0518f683ff
Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net"
	<bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: [Bitcoin-development]  F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee
Precedence: list

--001a1140656a82db6c0518f683ff
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Saturday, June 20, 2015, Ivan Brightly <ibrightly@gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ibrightly@gmail.com');>> wrote:

> Yep - similarly: you live in a neighborhood with a local coffee store.
> Sure you could use a stolen credit card or a fake $5 bill, but it's not
> worth the risk of being caught for a $3 coffee. And on the other side, the
> store can deal with 1% of transactions getting reversed or having a fake
> bill so they don't change their procedures.
>

These analogies being brought are based on the goal of quick
payments, which is different from the goal of Bitcoin:
cryptographically sound, distributed consensus.


> Perfection is not necessary in all situations.
>

If you want zeroconf transactions, first realize that this goal currently
has no sound solution in Bitcoin and until it does, supporting it should
not be a part of the agenda. There are two paths going forward, not
independent of one another, that would achieve the goal of quick payments
for your coffee etc:
- Research/implement a solution that is consistent with the goal of Bitcoin
- Rely on a cosigning central authority

If you think the latter option is nasty, remember that people,
like corporations, can be nasty as well. Do not rely on the good faith of
people.

Cameron

--001a1140656a82db6c0518f683ff
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>On Saturday, June 20, 2015, Ivan Brightly &lt;<a href=3D"javascript=
:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;ibrightly@gmail.com&#39;);" target=3D"_blank=
">ibrightly@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">Yep - similarly: you live in a neighborhood with a local coffe=
e store. Sure you could use a stolen credit card or a fake $5 bill, but it&=
#39;s not worth the risk of being caught for a $3 coffee. And on the other =
side, the store can deal with 1% of transactions getting reversed or having=
 a fake bill so they don&#39;t change their procedures.</div></blockquote><=
div>=C2=A0</div><div>These analogies=C2=A0being brought=C2=A0are based on t=
he=C2=A0goal of quick payments,=C2=A0which is different from=C2=A0the goal =
of Bitcoin: cryptographically=C2=A0sound,=C2=A0distributed consensus.=C2=A0=
</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>Perfection is not necessary in all situations.</div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>If you want zeroconf transactions, first re=
alize that this goal currently has no sound=C2=A0solution in Bitcoin=C2=A0a=
nd until it does, supporting=C2=A0it should not be=C2=A0a=C2=A0part of the =
agenda. There are two paths going forward, not independent of one another, =
that would achieve the goal of quick payments for your coffee etc:</div><di=
v>-=C2=A0Research/implement a solution that is consistent with the goal of =
Bitcoin</div><div>-=C2=A0Rely on=C2=A0a=C2=A0cosigning central authority</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>If you think the latter option is nasty, remember th=
at people, like=C2=A0corporations, can be nasty as well. Do not rely on the=
 good faith of people.</div><div><br></div><div>Cameron</div>

--001a1140656a82db6c0518f683ff--