Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of
	pixodegames.com designates 209.85.215.44 as permitted sender)
	client-ip=209.85.215.44;
	envelope-from=flavien.charlon@pixodegames.com;
	helo=mail-la0-f44.google.com; 
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAE28kURu7-OgY6vN0az6rQUGpChK76ZQL9_eL1J4j-HZOqhRYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABbpET96CboPcQeV-nKXv-CeaPiwpTKVUB_ioGPB2s3_5Y7bnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5341E1FF.7080204@monetize.io>
	<CABbpET_JFceNhRkxSZMyiTxkkYr2MvQVob7o4juEsPj4wo8e8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC1+kJMpEetKdpKs-OaFGvnBwi6-Pj8ycJ77cJzHOTk_jUPw=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABbpET-S5ahuQVcBaJZGyvFMS1=RU2mJZUAmECBKhFOFu6B6EA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5342BEE0.3050204@monetize.io>
	<CABbpET8Qbvhb47ZJX4EVh4673_ic9UwpMdMyZbsHay9F2zTj9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC1+kJPBH85p8Mgu0_7+1JxizgX19a-HWWF+38BLA7DZ4Ldd6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABbpET8DaEKbafX6Cju_e+ygeV1WDf_LXQKU6tTofh32R9XM=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE28kURu7-OgY6vN0az6rQUGpChK76ZQL9_eL1J4j-HZOqhRYA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Flavien Charlon <flavien.charlon@predictious.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 13:19:18 +0100
Message-ID: <CABbpET93YxPepKLHFKKabr6P7vpkRDOouVuo8zmWAf3FKc85Cg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alex Mizrahi <alex.mizrahi@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113393c84ffc1f04f6af3ce0
Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Feedback request: colored coins protocol
Precedence: list

--001a113393c84ffc1f04f6af3ce0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks for the valuable feedback. I see there is a strong concern with
requiring a large BTC capital for issuing coloring coins, so I am now in
the process of modifying the specification to address that. I will post an
update when this is finished.

By the way, padding doesn't solve the issue entirely (issuing 10 billion
shares sill takes you 100 BTC, even with padding and 1 satoshi = 1 share),
so I am going for the solution where the asset quantity of every output is
explicitly encoded in the OP_RETURN output. That way, whether you are
issuing 1 share or 100 trillions, you never need to pay more than 540
satoshis.


On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Alex Mizrahi <alex.mizrahi@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is beyond ridiculous...
>
> Color kernel which works with padding is still quite simple. I think we
> have extra 10-50 lines of code to handle padding in coloredcoinlib.
> Essentially we have a couple of lines like this :
>
>     value_wop = tx.outputs[oi].value - padding
>
> (value_wop means "value without padding").
> And then we have like 10 lines of code which selects padding for a
> transaction.
>
> That's not a lot of extra complexity. And it solves the problem once and
> for all.
>
> What you propose instead: "a different colored coin representing 10
> shares, and another one representing 100 shares (like the different
> denominations of dollar bills)"  is much more complex, and it won't work:
>
> Suppose you have $100 coin, as a single coin.
> How do you send $54.23?
> That's simply impossible.
>
> So you'd rather push complexity to higher levels (and create inconvenience
> for end users, as you admitted yourself) than add 10-50 lines of code to
> color kernel?
> I just do not understand this.
>
> But I'm not going to argue. I already wrote everything which I could write
> on this topic.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Put Bad Developers to Shame
> Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
> Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
> Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

--001a113393c84ffc1f04f6af3ce0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thanks for the valuable feedback. I see there is a st=
rong concern with requiring a large BTC capital for issuing coloring coins,=
 so I am now in the process of modifying the specification to address that.=
 I will post an update when this is finished.</div>

<div><br></div><div>By the way, padding doesn&#39;t solve the issue entirel=
y (issuing 10 billion shares sill takes you 100 BTC, even with padding and =
1 satoshi =3D 1 share), so I am going for the solution where the asset quan=
tity of every output is explicitly encoded in the OP_RETURN output. That wa=
y, whether you are issuing 1 share or 100 trillions, you never need to pay =
more than 540 satoshis.</div>

</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon,=
 Apr 7, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Alex Mizrahi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:alex.mizrahi@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">alex.mizrahi@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
This is beyond ridiculous...</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_extra">

Color kernel which works with padding is still quite simple. I think we hav=
e extra 10-50 lines of code to handle padding in coloredcoinlib. Essentiall=
y we have a couple of lines like this :<br>
<br>=A0 =A0 value_wop =3D tx.outputs[oi].value - padding</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">(value_wop means &quot;v=
alue without padding&quot;).</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">And then we ha=
ve like 10 lines of code which selects padding for a transaction.=A0</div>


<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">That&#39;s =
not a lot of extra complexity. And it solves the problem once and for all.<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div>What you propose instead: &q=
uot;<span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">a differe=
nt colored coin representing 10 shares, and another one representing 100 sh=
ares (like the different denominations of dollar bills)&quot; =A0</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">is much more com=
plex, and it won&#39;t work:</span></div>


<div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></sp=
an></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"=
>Suppose you have $100 coin, as a single coin.=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">How do y=
ou send $54.23?</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12.8px">That&#39;s simply impossible.</span></div>
<div><br></div><div>So you&#39;d rather push complexity to higher levels (a=
nd create inconvenience for end users, as you admitted yourself) than add 1=
0-50 lines of code to color kernel?</div><div>I just do not understand this=
.</div>


<div><br></div><div>But I&#39;m not going to argue. I already wrote everyth=
ing which I could write on this topic.=A0</div><div><br></div></div>
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
Put Bad Developers to Shame<br>
Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration<br>
Continuously Automate Build, Test &amp; Deployment<br>
Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees" target=3D"_blank">http://p.=
sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees</a><br>_________________________________________=
______<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113393c84ffc1f04f6af3ce0--