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Message-ID: <8c6e98ff-bdec-4955-8132-bd93af2d40dd@dashjr.org>
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 10:33:22 -0400
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] The Future of Bitcoin Testnet
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To: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>, bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
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From: Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org>
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Is the difficulty reset bug actually a bug, or a feature?

If it's a bug, couldn't we just fix it and let the blockchain reorg on=20
its own?

Signet is definitely not a replacement for testnet.

Luke


On 3/31/24 09:19, Jameson Lopp wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to open a discussion about testnet3 to put out some feelers=20
> on potential changes to it. First, a few facts:
>
> 1. Testnet3 has been running for 13 years. It's on block 2.5 million=20
> something and the block reward is down to ~0.014 TBTC, so mining is=20
> not doing a great job at distributing testnet coins any more.
>
> 2. The reason the block height is insanely high is due to a rather=20
> amusing edge case bug that causes the difficulty to regularly get=20
> reset to 1, which causes a bit of havoc. If you want a deep dive into=20
> the quirk: https://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/
>
> 3. Testnet3 is being actively used for scammy airdrops; those of us=20
> who tend to be generous with our testnet coins are getting hounded by=20
> non-developers chasing cheap gains.
>
> 4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sold; one could=20
> argue that the fundamental principle of testnet=C2=A0coins having no valu=
e=20
> has been broken.
>
> This leads me to ponder the following questions, for which I'm=20
> soliciting feedback.
>
> 1. Should we plan for a reset of testnet? If so, given how long it has=20
> been since the last reset and how many production systems will need to=20
> be updated, would a reset need to be done with a great deal of notice?
>
> 2. Is there interest in fixing the difficulty reset bug? It should be=20
> a one liner fix, and I'd argue it could be done sooner rather than=20
> later, and orthogonal to the network reset question. Would such a=20
> change, which would technically be a hard fork (but also arguably a=20
> self resolving fork due to the difficulty dynamics) necessitate a BIP=20
> or could we just YOLO it?
>
> 3. Is all of the above a waste of time and we should instead deprecate=20
> testnet in favor of signet?
>
> - Jameson
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20
> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=20
> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit=20
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy5=
Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCUfw%40mail.gmail.com=20
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy=
5Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCUfw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Df=
ooter>.

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">
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    <p>Is the difficulty reset bug actually a bug, or a feature?</p>
    <p>If it's a bug, couldn't we just fix it and let the blockchain
      reorg on its own?</p>
    <p>Signet is definitely not a replacement for testnet.</p>
    <p>Luke</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 3/31/24 09:19, Jameson Lopp wrote:<br=
>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
cite=3D"mid:CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy5Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCUfw@mail.gmail.=
com">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I'd like to open a discussion about testnet3 to put out
          some feelers on potential changes to it. First, a few facts:</div=
>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>1. Testnet3 has been running for 13 years. It's on block
          2.5 million something and the block reward is down to ~0.014
          TBTC, so mining is not doing a great job at distributing
          testnet coins any more.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>2. The reason the block height is insanely high is due to a
          rather amusing edge case bug that causes the difficulty to
          regularly get reset to 1, which causes a bit of havoc. If you
          want a deep dive into the quirk:=C2=A0<a
href=3D"https://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/"
            moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">https:=
//blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/</a></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>3. Testnet3 is being actively used for scammy airdrops;
          those of us who tend to be generous with our testnet coins are
          getting hounded by non-developers chasing cheap gains.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sold; one
          could argue that the fundamental principle of testnet=C2=A0coins
          having no value has been broken.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>This leads me to ponder the following questions, for which
          I'm soliciting feedback.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>1. Should we plan for a reset of testnet? If so, given how
          long it has been since the last reset and how many production
          systems will need to be updated, would a reset need to be done
          with a great deal of notice?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>2. Is there interest in fixing the difficulty reset bug? It
          should be a one liner fix, and I'd argue it could be done
          sooner rather than later, and orthogonal to the network reset
          question. Would such a change, which would technically be a
          hard fork (but also arguably a self resolving fork due to the
          difficulty dynamics) necessitate a BIP or could we just YOLO
          it?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>3. Is all of the above a waste of time and we should
          instead deprecate testnet in favor of signet?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>- Jameson</div>
      </div>
      -- <br>
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+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
      To view this discussion on the web visit <a
href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b33=
6vPVy5Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCUfw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_s=
ource=3Dfooter"
        moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind=
ev/CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy5Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCUfw%40mail.gmail.com</a>=
.<br>
    </blockquote>
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