Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 09:37:47 -0400
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: "aliashraf.btc At protonmail" <aliashraf.btc@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <YufXK6ayn8ZcBzYN@petertodd.org>
References: <CAGHFe1BXdTkPZn4r_KTxYoz0sqcMsV830dm5JTTFURxDezBnDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <Yt/h2Jv3m8ZsfZ8v@petertodd.org>
 <f889c7fc9db56ed448237c8a4091abaa@dtrt.org>
 <CAGHFe1C-u7DbTtg0dz+p8Moh=FbFN5dKZow5HgtMpxcVyS2ZdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <JMG4yhnQ2xL1Pq51Jnyk37c6-Ip8zHuCjmPWc6AYJ0LxlhO7enV9xdr4YGkGbn_J-ecpueZsB-mIjowyVDyMINme1bXJk4BYYP7lBxR4Kfg=@protonmail.com>
 <YuerLzSvdJ8ZcqrR@petertodd.org>
 <bKNhJ_ASFgsOslPnOxW-ps5h2OUbHbVQfOelaLPey8lxezLEuevkua1WpAtVRNPRmCtj0fRAeOSe5OHWYOSafczcBuGzhRDqbVjGctAUdBI=@protonmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="T4S61sx0r/2cmSVd"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <bKNhJ_ASFgsOslPnOxW-ps5h2OUbHbVQfOelaLPey8lxezLEuevkua1WpAtVRNPRmCtj0fRAeOSe5OHWYOSafczcBuGzhRDqbVjGctAUdBI=@protonmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Regarding setting a lower minrelaytxfee
Precedence: list


--T4S61sx0r/2cmSVd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Aug 01, 2022 at 01:19:05PM +0000, aliashraf.btc At protonmail wrote:
> > On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 05:24:35PM +0000, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev wrot=
e:
> > like a hashcash-based alternative broadcast scheme.
> Hi Peter,
> I've been mulling the idea of attaching work to low fee txns, both as a c=
ompensation (e.g., in a sidechain, or an alt), and/or as a spam proof. Unfo=
rtunately, both suffer from ASICs:
> For spam proof case, the adversary can easily buy a used/obsolete device =
to produce lots of spam txns very cheaply, unless you put the bar very high=
, making it almost impossible for average users to even try.
> The compensation scenario is pretty off-topic, still, interesting enough =
for 1 min read:
> Wallets commit to the latest blockchain state in the transaction AND atta=
ch work.
> It is considered contribution to the security (illegitimate chains can't =
include the txn), hence isrewarded by fee discount/exemption depending on t=
he offset of the state they've committed to (the closer, the better) and th=
e amount of work attached.
> For this to work, block difficulty is calculated inclusive with the work =
embedded in the txns, it contains. Sophisticated and consequential, yet not=
 infeasible per se.
>=20
> Unfortunately, this scheme is hard to balance with ASICs in the scene too=
, for instance, you can't subsidize wallets for their work like with a leve=
rge, because miners can easily do it locally, seizing the subsidies for the=
mselves, long story, not relevant just ignore it.

We're not talking about a consensus system here. Just a way to rate-limit
access to a broadcast network used by a small minority of nodes. It's
completely ok to simply change the PoW algorithm in the _highly_ unlikely e=
vent
someone bothers to build an ASIC for it. Since this isn't a consensu system,
it's totally ok if multiple versions of the scheme run in parallel.

--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

--T4S61sx0r/2cmSVd
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=MsS/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--T4S61sx0r/2cmSVd--