Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WctuK-0005Ne-Rt for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 09:56:00 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de ([80.237.132.66]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1WctuH-0004f9-7E for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 09:56:00 +0000 Received: from [37.143.74.116] (helo=[192.168.2.2]); authenticated by wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1WctuA-00016P-N3; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:55:50 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AB924145-D1ED-4E0D-B485-26A6E0A71BA8"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) From: Tamas Blummer In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:56:07 +0200 Message-Id: References: <3A69904F-0A3D-42E9-9DE7-067874E710BB@bitsofproof.com> <5353ECDF.6090903@gmail.com> To: Danny Hamilton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; tamas@bitsofproof.com; 1398246957; b2ad39c8; X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1WctuH-0004f9-7E Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 09:56:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AB924145-D1ED-4E0D-B485-26A6E0A71BA8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BBD6B06C-D261-4291-BECF-D5274D8ACA85" --Apple-Mail=_BBD6B06C-D261-4291-BECF-D5274D8ACA85 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 The problem is =B5BTC that bit tries to solve.=20 BTC, mBTC and =B5BTC are just too similiar for enyone else than = engineers. The mixed use of them leads to misunderstanding.=20 I think adoption would benefit of a single unit with easily remembered = and associated name that has no smaller than 1/100 fractions called = satoshis. Regards, Tam=E1s Blummer Founder, CEO http://bitsofproof.com On 23.04.2014, at 11:44, Danny Hamilton = wrote: > It seems to me that xbit is no more distinct or intuitive than =B5bit. = In either case it's simply an arbitrary character in front of the word = "bit". Of course, for the majority of the world familiar with SI, the =B5= actually adds additional meaning that is lost with the x. >=20 > Furthermore, given the multiple concerns voiced about the overuse of = the word "bit", =B5BTC seems to solve the problem. >=20 > Since we are talking about how it would be displayed in software, we = don't need to be concerned about how people will pronounce it, or what = the nickname will be. If most of the wallets start displaying amounts = in =B5BTC quantities, it will be obvious that a =B5BTC is a different = magnitude than a BTC. Nobody is going to look at their 100,000 =B5BTC = balance and think they have 100,000 BTC. People will immediately make = the mental adjustment to the new order of magnitude even if they don't = specifically know that =B5 means micro, or that micro means 1e-6. >=20 > Nicknames will form organically (much like buck, fin, large, k, grand, = and benny for U.S. currency), I've always been partial to milly (or = millie) and mike (or micky) as nicknames for mBTC and =B5BTC. I've = personally used those when speaking with people, and they seem to catch = on pretty quickly. >=20 > As has already been mentioned, you're going to be hard pressed to find = software that denotes U.S. balances in "bucks". There isn't any good = reason to be coding a nickname like "bit", "xbit", or "mike" into wallet = software. >=20 > - Danny Hamilton >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Aaron Axvig wrote: > That piece of horse equipment is called a bit in the US too. But the = point > stands: most people don't use "bit" on a daily basis other than = referring to > "a little bit of ." >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Wladimir [mailto:laanwj@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 11:27 AM > To: Chris Pacia > Cc: Bitcoin Dev > Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account >=20 > On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Chris Pacia = wrote: > > The term bit is really only overloaded for those who are techy. 95% = of > > the population never uses the term bit in their daily lives and I > > doubt most could even name one use of the term. > > Plus bit used to be a unit of money way back when, so this is kind = of > > reclaiming it. I think it's a great fit. >=20 > That's a very anglocentric way of thinking. >=20 > Here in the Netherlands, a "bit" is something you put in a horses's = mouth. > It's also used as imported word (in the information sense). > We've never used the term for money. >=20 > Wladimir >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- > -- > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" = is the > definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. = Written by > three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now = available. > Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform > Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software > Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready > Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform > http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform > Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software > Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready > Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform > = http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___________________________________________= ____ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development --Apple-Mail=_BBD6B06C-D261-4291-BECF-D5274D8ACA85 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AA8913E5-0B31-4523-8DAA-42D8A120FCCA" --Apple-Mail=_AA8913E5-0B31-4523-8DAA-42D8A120FCCA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 The = problem is =B5BTC that bit tries to solve. 

BTC, = mBTC and =B5BTC are just too similiar for enyone else than = engineers. The mixed use of them leads to = misunderstanding. 
I think adoption would benefit of a = single unit with easily remembered and associated name that has no = smaller than 1/100 fractions called satoshis.

Regards,

Tam=E1s = Blummer
Founder, = CEO

http://bitsofproof.com

On 23.04.2014, at 11:44, Danny Hamilton <danny.hamilton@gmail.com> = wrote:

It seems to me that = xbit is no more distinct or intuitive than =B5bit. In either case it's = simply an arbitrary character in front of the word "bit".  Of = course, for the majority of the world familiar with SI, the =B5 actually = adds additional meaning that is lost with the x.

Furthermore, given the multiple concerns voiced about the = overuse of the word "bit", =B5BTC seems to solve the = problem.

Since we are talking about how it would be = displayed in software, we don't need to be concerned about how people = will pronounce it, or what the nickname will be.  If most of the = wallets start displaying amounts in =B5BTC quantities, it will be = obvious that a =B5BTC is a different magnitude than a BTC.  Nobody = is going to look at their 100,000 =B5BTC balance and think they have = 100,000 BTC. People will immediately make the mental adjustment to the = new order of magnitude even if they don't specifically know that =B5 = means micro, or that micro means 1e-6.

Nicknames will form organically (much like buck, fin, large, = k, grand, and benny for U.S. currency), I've always been partial to = milly (or millie) and mike (or micky) as nicknames for mBTC and = =B5BTC.  I've personally used those when speaking with people, and = they seem to catch on pretty quickly.

As has already been mentioned, you're going to be hard pressed = to find software that denotes U.S. balances in "bucks".  There = isn't any good reason to be coding a nickname like "bit", "xbit", or = "mike" into wallet software.

-  Danny Hamilton


On Tue, Apr 22, = 2014 at 8:51 AM, Aaron Axvig <aaron@axvigs.com> wrote:
That piece of horse = equipment is called a bit in the US too.  But the point
stands: most people don't use "bit" on a daily basis other than = referring to
"a little bit of <something>."

-----Original Message-----
From: Wladimir [mailto:laanwj@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 11:27 AM
To: Chris Pacia
Cc: Bitcoin Dev
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account

On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Chris Pacia <ctpacia@gmail.com> wrote:
> The term bit is really only overloaded for those who are techy. 95% = of
> the population never uses the term bit in their daily lives and = I
> doubt most could even name one use of the term.
> Plus bit used to be a unit of money way back when, so this is kind = of
> reclaiming it. I think it's a great fit.

That's a very anglocentric way of thinking.

Here in the Netherlands, a "bit" is something you put in a horses's = mouth.
It's also used as imported word (in the information sense).
We've never used the term for money.

Wladimir

= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --
--
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is = the
definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written = by
three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now = available.
Download your free book today!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-developm= ent@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-dev= elopment

------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-developm= ent@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-dev= elopment

= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build = your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open = Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And = Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform_____________________________= __________________
Bitcoin-development mailing = list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourcef= orge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

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