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From: Me <jimmyjack@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20150715151825.GB20029@savin.petertodd.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:49:13 -0700
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	<55A66FA9.4010506@thinlink.com>
	<20150715151825.GB20029@savin.petertodd.org>
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Significant losses by double-spending unconfirmed
	transactions
Precedence: list

Thank you Simon for sharing your tests, if possible can you share TX =
hashes please. I would recommend to send them money post-mortem. What =
you did is really valuable information, however it can be classified as =
fraud. I really don=E2=80=99t want open this topic here, just suggesting =
to keep your record clean :-)=20


> the double-spent txs
> had near 100% propagation on blockchain.info (who has unfortunately
> purged the relevant data already)


Can you please share the TX Hash


> Blockcypher's "confidence factor" model(1)
> under the hood - yet another one of those sybil attacking network
> monitoring things


Peter, I noticed on your twitter you have a lot of bad things to say =
about Blockcypher and their business model (which I might not full =
agree, but totally respect), can you share any evidence they perform any =
form of Sybil attack on the network, please.=20


> On Jul 15, 2015, at 8:18 AM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>=20
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 07:35:21AM -0700, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev =
wrote:
>>=20
>> You perform a valuable service with your demonstration, but you
>> neglected to include the txid's to show that you actually did it.
>=20
>> Your advice is must-follow for anyone relying on an unconfirmed tx: =
it
>> must pay a good fee and be highly relayable/minable.
>=20
> Actually, I was looking at what I believe was (part of?) this attack
> yesterday in the logs on my full-RBF nodes and the txs involved *did*
> have good fees and were highly relayable/minable - the double-spent =
txs
> had near 100% propagation on blockchain.info (who has unfortunately
> purged the relevant data already)
>=20
> Shapeshift.io depends on Blockcypher's "confidence factor" model(1)
> under the hood - yet another one of those sybil attacking network
> monitoring things - to estimate tx confirmation probability by looking
> at the % of nodes a tx has propagated too. But miners frequently use
> customized Bitcoin Core codebases that don't follow normal policies, =
so
> those measurements don't actually tell you what you need to know.
>=20
> hapeshift confirmed(2) the attack - confirming that they disabled
> unconfirmed tx acceptance - said they're going to "improve" their
> system... It'll be interesting to see what that actually entails.
>=20
> 1) =
https://medium.com/blockcypher-blog/from-zero-to-hero-bitcoin-transactions=
-in-8-seconds-7c9edcb3b734
> 2) =
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ddkhy/bitcoindev_significant_lo=
sses_by_doublespending/ct468p7
>=20
> --=20
> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> 000000000000000010bf087ed645cba129e2523930d5cde636ddbae9e03aef9c
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