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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 20:59:58 +0000
To: Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gmail.com>, luke@dashjr.org
From: "'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
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On 04/20/2024 03:59 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> Is Luke happy with this? That is a lot of new editors to onboard. I
> suspect you'd push back against adding 5 maintainers overnight to
> Bitcoin Core and I'm not sure why this is any different. What happens
> if there is disagreement between these now 6 BIP editors on merge
> decisions? If Luke is fine with this ok but it seems like the BIPs
> repo is going to be a free for all from now on.

My understanding is that he is okay with it, and I've talked to him=20
privately numerous times about this since this thread was started.

This is different from Bitcoin Core in that there is currently only one=20
BIP editor who has clearly stated more editors are needed. BIPs is also=20
a fairly low risk repo as it's just documentation.

The expectation is that each editor will be able to work independently;=20
obviously they should be communicating, but it's not a committee. I'm=20
sure there will be some disagreement eventually, but ultimately, I think=20
all of the candidates are professionals who can handle that maturely.=20
Obviously a revert war would be a problem, but I don't think it would=20
come down to that, and in that case, participants in that should be=20
promptly removed.

Ava

>=20
> Thanks
> Michael
>=20
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 8:30=E2=80=AFPM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Developmen=
t
> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>>
>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
>> April 22nd.
>>
>> Ava
>>
>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
>> wrote:
>>> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
>>> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
>>> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
>>> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objection=
s
>>> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
>>> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed
>>> by many others.
>>>
>>> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
>>> counts are:
>>> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
>>> * Murch - 13 for
>>> * Jonatack - 13 for
>>> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
>>> * Roasbeef - 9 for
>>> * Michael Folkson - none
>>>
>>> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
>>> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process
>>> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
>>> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
>>> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
>>> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
>>> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone reall=
y
>>> wants to deal with.
>>>
>>> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted
>>> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached ou=
t
>>> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
>>> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
>>> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
>>> received a response from Roasbeef.
>>>
>>> Ava
>>>
>>> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>>>    > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>> majority.
>>>>
>>>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having
>>>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which peop=
le
>>>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up
>>>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
>>>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
>>>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from
>>>> their expectations.
>>>>
>>>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
>>>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we ne=
ed
>>>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking o=
ff).
>>>>
>>>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
>>>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their trac=
k
>>>> record in the space
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30=E2=80=AFPM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +1 for
>>>> Kanzure
>>>> RubenSomsen
>>>> Seccour
>>>> Jon Atack
>>>> Roasbeef
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>> majority.
>>>>
>>>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to return to that.
>>>>
>>>> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>>>
>>>>       On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54=E2=80=AFPM UTC-4 David A. Ha=
rding wrote:
>>>>
>>>>           On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>>>            > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I
>>>>           like Bob!".
>>>>
>>>>           Using only comments from the mailing list, the following app=
ears
>>>>           to be
>>>>           the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks=
 denote
>>>>           candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the rol=
e.
>>>>
>>>>           - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>>>           Stewart[3],
>>>>           Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
>>>>           Black[11],
>>>>           Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>>>           Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>>           - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3]=
,
>>>>           Michael
>>>>           Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15=
], John
>>>>           Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>>           - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3=
],
>>>>           /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>>>           Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>>>           Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>>           - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>>>           Stewart[3], John
>>>>           C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoin=
e
>>>>           Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>>>
>>>>           - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], =
Keagan
>>>>           McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>>>           Riard[12],
>>>>           Ava Chow[14]
>>>>
>>>>           - Michael Folkson*
>>>>
>>>>           Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>>>           "non-dev
>>>>           triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", an=
d
>>>>           Antoine
>>>>           Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>>>
>>>>           I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the a=
bove
>>>>           candidates had been especially active there, which is listed
>>>>           below as:
>>>>           total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed=
).
>>>>
>>>>           - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>>>           - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>>>           - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>>>           - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>>>           - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>>>           - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>>>
>>>>           I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set =
to
>>>>           have a
>>>>           merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there a=
re
>>>>           far-along
>>>>           draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>>>           Payments). I
>>>>           don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>>>           demonstrates
>>>>           familiarity with the process.
>>>>
>>>>           Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates abov=
e with
>>>>           multiple recommendations from other community participants a=
re
>>>>           fully
>>>>           qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>>>           justification
>>>>           for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only=
 a
>>>>           longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as =
Corallo
>>>>           mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology throug=
h a
>>>>           draft
>>>>           BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review o=
f
>>>>           all 300
>>>>           pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>>>           reviewed
>>>>           drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>>>           significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility o=
f the
>>>>           documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we=
'd
>>>>           ask him
>>>>           to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's alr=
eady
>>>>           doing,
>>>>           so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>>>
>>>>           -Dave
>>>>
>>>>           [1]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow=
101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927=
551e@achow101.com/>
>>>>           [2]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashj=
r.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62=
a3@dashjr.org/>
>>>>           [3]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googl=
egroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc=
46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>           [4]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpu=
rgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd5=
5899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
>>>>           [5]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googl=
egroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c37=
19157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>           [6]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googl=
egroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a=
3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>           [7]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googl=
egroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d3=
46efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>           [8]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=
=3DwruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFG=
L1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>>           [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.o=
rg/
>>>>           <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd=
.org/>
>>>>           [10]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattc=
orallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba03=
36a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
>>>>           [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@conso=
le/
>>>>           <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>>>           [12]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E..=
.@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6=
+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>>           [13]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch=
.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e77=
8@murch.one/>
>>>>           [14]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow=
101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b=
0644@achow101.com/>
>>>>           [15]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5=
Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS=
4xojo=3D@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85k=
mIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bX=
OH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@protonmail.com/>
>>>>           [16]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googl=
egroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9=
ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>           [17]
>>>>           https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=
=3D=3DYJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMH=
HROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>>
>>>>       --
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>>>>       To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it=
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>>>>       send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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>>>>       To view this discussion on the web visit
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a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bi=
tcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_mediu=
m=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sergi.
>>>>
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>>>
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>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> Michael Folkson
> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail.com

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