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[185.70.43.23]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j4-20020a05600c1c0400b00416488ec4d9si220398wms.0.2024.04.20.14.00.05 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lists@achow101.com designates 185.70.43.23 as permitted sender) client-ip=185.70.43.23; Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 20:59:58 +0000 To: Michael Folkson , luke@dashjr.org From: "'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com> <4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com> <6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542@mattcorallo.com> <77554baa9330c57361c65c1fc85557f1@dtrt.org> <7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben@googlegroups.com> <070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b@achow101.com> Feedback-ID: 53660394:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: aa767a459e0627bc313226cb6afbb5d7467c5a1d MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: lists@achow101.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@achow101.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=jKNDTU9i; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lists@achow101.com designates 185.70.43.23 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lists@achow101.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=achow101.com X-Original-From: Ava Chow Reply-To: Ava Chow Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/20/2024 03:59 PM, Michael Folkson wrote: > Is Luke happy with this? That is a lot of new editors to onboard. I > suspect you'd push back against adding 5 maintainers overnight to > Bitcoin Core and I'm not sure why this is any different. What happens > if there is disagreement between these now 6 BIP editors on merge > decisions? If Luke is fine with this ok but it seems like the BIPs > repo is going to be a free for all from now on. My understanding is that he is okay with it, and I've talked to him=20 privately numerous times about this since this thread was started. This is different from Bitcoin Core in that there is currently only one=20 BIP editor who has clearly stated more editors are needed. BIPs is also=20 a fairly low risk repo as it's just documentation. The expectation is that each editor will be able to work independently;=20 obviously they should be communicating, but it's not a committee. I'm=20 sure there will be some disagreement eventually, but ultimately, I think=20 all of the candidates are professionals who can handle that maturely.=20 Obviously a revert war would be a problem, but I don't think it would=20 come down to that, and in that case, participants in that should be=20 promptly removed. Ava >=20 > Thanks > Michael >=20 > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 8:30=E2=80=AFPM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Developmen= t > Mailing List wrote: >> >> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform >> everyone of what will happen on Monday. >> >> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there >> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. >> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, >> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday >> April 22nd. >> >> Ava >> >> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List >> wrote: >>> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at >>> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the >>> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual >>> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objection= s >>> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share >>> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed >>> by many others. >>> >>> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current >>> counts are: >>> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against >>> * Murch - 13 for >>> * Jonatack - 13 for >>> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against >>> * Roasbeef - 9 for >>> * Michael Folkson - none >>> >>> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and >>> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process >>> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by >>> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of >>> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who >>> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list >>> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone reall= y >>> wants to deal with. >>> >>> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted >>> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached ou= t >>> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and >>> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public >>> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not >>> received a response from Roasbeef. >>> >>> Ava >>> >>> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: >>>> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >>>> majority. >>>> >>>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having >>>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which peop= le >>>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up >>>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not >>>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up >>>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from >>>> their expectations. >>>> >>>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and >>>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we ne= ed >>>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking o= ff). >>>> >>>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. >>>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their trac= k >>>> record in the space >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30=E2=80=AFPM nvk >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 for >>>> Kanzure >>>> RubenSomsen >>>> Seccour >>>> Jon Atack >>>> Roasbeef >>>> >>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >>>> majority. >>>> >>>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. >>>> >>>> I'd like to return to that. >>>> >>>> - NVK (temp gmail account) >>>> >>>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54=E2=80=AFPM UTC-4 David A. Ha= rding wrote: >>>> >>>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >>>> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I >>>> like Bob!". >>>> >>>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following app= ears >>>> to be >>>> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks= denote >>>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the rol= e. >>>> >>>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >>>> Stewart[3], >>>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >>>> Black[11], >>>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>>> Carvalho[16] >>>> >>>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3]= , >>>> Michael >>>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15= ], John >>>> Carvalho[16] >>>> >>>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3= ], >>>> /dev/fd0[5][7], >>>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John >>>> Carvalho[16] >>>> >>>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris >>>> Stewart[3], John >>>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoin= e >>>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >>>> >>>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], = Keagan >>>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine >>>> Riard[12], >>>> Ava Chow[14] >>>> >>>> - Michael Folkson* >>>> >>>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for >>>> "non-dev >>>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", an= d >>>> Antoine >>>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >>>> >>>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the a= bove >>>> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed >>>> below as: >>>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed= ). >>>> >>>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >>>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >>>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >>>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >>>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >>>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >>>> >>>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set = to >>>> have a >>>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there a= re >>>> far-along >>>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent >>>> Payments). I >>>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >>>> demonstrates >>>> familiarity with the process. >>>> >>>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates abov= e with >>>> multiple recommendations from other community participants a= re >>>> fully >>>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed >>>> justification >>>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only= a >>>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as = Corallo >>>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology throug= h a >>>> draft >>>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review o= f >>>> all 300 >>>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has >>>> reviewed >>>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >>>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility o= f the >>>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we= 'd >>>> ask him >>>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's alr= eady >>>> doing, >>>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >>>> >>>> -Dave >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow= 101.com/ >>>> [2] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashj= r.org/ >>>> [3] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googl= egroups.com/ >>>> [4] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpu= rgatory.com/ >>>> [5] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googl= egroups.com/ >>>> [6] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googl= egroups.com/ >>>> [7] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googl= egroups.com/ >>>> [8] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX= =3DwruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.o= rg/ >>>> >>>> [10] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattc= orallo.com/ >>>> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@conso= le/ >>>> >>>> [12] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E..= .@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> [13] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch= .one/ >>>> [14] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow= 101.com/ >>>> [15] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5= Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS= 4xojo=3D@protonmail.com/ >>>> [16] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googl= egroups.com/ >>>> [17] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU= =3D=3DYJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goog= le >>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it= , >>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>> . >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-= a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sergi. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>> . >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xi= XBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send = an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms= gid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg= id/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Michael Folkson > Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail.com --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= bitcoindev/dec8efc6-65db-4721-8178-8d3b99804fdd%40achow101.com.