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From: Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com>
In-Reply-To: <30930479.sqHpaOe3cY@crushinator>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:56:28 +0100
Message-Id: <12ED3204-6F51-4CEC-960C-5771597ACB4D@bitsofproof.com>
References: <20150120154641.GA32556@muck> <2236907.ZtrNgikFVR@crushinator>
	<656E7756-5F0B-4594-B9F1-8CC68C7A5EE5@bitsofproof.com>
	<30930479.sqHpaOe3cY@crushinator>
To: Matt Whitlock <bip@mattwhitlock.name>
Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The legal risks of auto-updating wallet
	software; custodial relationships
Precedence: list


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I am not a lawyer, just thinking loud.
I think that technology is a strong argument before court, but I suspect =
that it is just that, as of now.

Tamas Blummer
On Jan 20, 2015, at 6:47 PM, Matt Whitlock <bip@mattwhitlock.name> =
wrote:

> On Tuesday, 20 January 2015, at 6:44 pm, Tamas Blummer wrote:
>> Knowing the private key and owning the linked coins is not =
necessarily the same in front of a court.
>>=20
>> At least in german law there is a difference between =91Eigentum' =
means ownership and =91Besitz=92 means ability to deal with it.
>> Being able to deal with an asset does not make you the owner.
>=20
> So what we're telling the newbies in /r/bitcoin is plain wrong. =
Bitcoins *do* have an owner independent from the parties who have access =
to the private keys that control their disposition. That's pretty =
difficult to reconcile from a technological perspective.
>=20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>I =
am not a lawyer, just thinking loud.</div><div>I think that technology =
is a strong argument before court, but I suspect that it is just that, =
as of now.</div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Tamas =
Blummer</div></div><div><div>On Jan 20, 2015, at 6:47 PM, Matt Whitlock =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bip@mattwhitlock.name">bip@mattwhitlock.name</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">On Tuesday, 20 January 2015, at 6:44 pm, Tamas Blummer =
wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Knowing the private key and owning =
the linked coins is not necessarily the same in front of a =
court.<br><br>At least in german law there is a difference between =
=91Eigentum' means ownership and =91Besitz=92 means ability to deal with =
it.<br>Being able to deal with an asset does not make you the =
owner.<br></blockquote><br>So what we're telling the newbies in =
/r/bitcoin is plain wrong. Bitcoins *do* have an owner independent from =
the parties who have access to the private keys that control their =
disposition. That's pretty difficult to reconcile from a technological =
perspective.<br><br><br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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