Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2022 13:19:05 +0000
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Regarding setting a lower minrelaytxfee
Precedence: list

> On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 05:24:35PM +0000, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> like a hashcash-based alternative broadcast scheme.
Hi Peter,
I've been mulling the idea of attaching work to low fee txns, both as a com=
pensation (e.g., in a sidechain, or an alt), and/or as a spam proof. Unfort=
unately, both suffer from ASICs:
For spam proof case, the adversary can easily buy a used/obsolete device to=
 produce lots of spam txns very cheaply, unless you put the bar very high, =
making it almost impossible for average users to even try.
The compensation scenario is pretty off-topic, still, interesting enough fo=
r 1 min read:
Wallets commit to the latest blockchain state in the transaction AND attach=
 work.
It is considered contribution to the security (illegitimate chains can't in=
clude the txn), hence isrewarded by fee discount/exemption depending on the=
 offset of the state they've committed to (the closer, the better) and the =
amount of work attached.
For this to work, block difficulty is calculated inclusive with the work em=
bedded in the txns, it contains. Sophisticated and consequential, yet not i=
nfeasible per se.

Unfortunately, this scheme is hard to balance with ASICs in the scene too, =
for instance, you can't subsidize wallets for their work like with a leverg=
e, because miners can easily do it locally, seizing the subsidies for thems=
elves, long story, not relevant just ignore it.

Cheers, Ali

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, August 1st, 2022 at 3:00 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin=
-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:


> On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 05:24:35PM +0000, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>
> > However, I think developers should not make any changes in the default =
minimum fee rate required for relay. If there are incentives for users and =
miners to change it, they should use non-default value. In case, miners wan=
t to experiment with lower fee rate and see if this increases revenue they =
could try using it on odd dates (even dates remain default) for a month. We=
 all could analyze how this worked for different mining pools and non-defau=
lt value (lower or higher) could become normal in the future.
>
>
> Without a way for lower-fee-rate transactions to get to those miners,
> experiments like that are pointless.
>
> If you want to propose things like this, propose a way to get non-standar=
d txs
> to miners, like a hashcash-based alternative broadcast scheme.
>
> --
> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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