Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UNh1x-0008Em-3U for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 04 Apr 2013 10:04:29 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.219.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.52; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa0-f52.google.com; Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com ([209.85.219.52]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1UNh1v-00010Q-Pc for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 04 Apr 2013 10:04:29 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id k14so2482008oag.25 for ; Thu, 04 Apr 2013 03:04:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.80.4 with SMTP id n4mr3496668oex.141.1365069862423; Thu, 04 Apr 2013 03:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.162.198 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 03:04:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20130401225107.GU65880@giles.gnomon.org.uk> <20130401225417.GV65880@giles.gnomon.org.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 11:04:22 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ZmnLER8pUTNNwNQoL3btdQcA6sI Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: grarpamp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122789e3e560904d9861803 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1UNh1v-00010Q-Pc Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] bitcoin pull requests X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 10:04:29 -0000 --089e0122789e3e560904d9861803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 By the way, I have a download of the Bitcoin-Qt client and signature verification running in a cron job. On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > My general hope/vague plan for bitcoinj based wallets is to get them all > on to automatic updates with threshold signatures. Combined with regular > audits of the initial downloads for new users, that should give a pretty > safe result that is immune to a developer going rogue. > > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 7:12 PM, grarpamp wrote: > >> > Users will have available multisig addresses which require >> > transactions to be signed off by a wallet HSM. (E.g. a keyfob >> >> Hardware is a good thing. But only if you do the crypto in the >> hardware and trust the hardware and its attack models ;) For >> instance, the fingerprint readers you see everywhere... many >> of them just present the raw fingerprint scan to the host (and >> host software), instead of hashing the fingerprint internally and >> using that as primitive in crypto exchanges with the host. They >> cheaped out and/or didn't think. So oops, there went both your >> security (host replay) and your personal privacy (biometrics), >> outside of your control. All with no protection against physical >> fingerprint lifting. >> >> > This doesn't remove the need to improve repository integrity. ... but >> > repository integrity is a general problem that is applicable to many >> > things (after all, what does it matter if you can't compromise Bitcoin >> > if you can compromise boost, openssl, or gcc?) >> >> Yes, that case would matter zero to the end product. However >> having a strong repo permits better auditing of the BTC codebase. >> That's a good thing, and eliminates the need to talk chicken and >> egg. >> >> > It's probably best >> > that Bitcoin specalists stay focused on Bitcoin security measures, and >> > other people interested in repository security come and help out >> > improving it. An obvious area of improvement might be oddity >> > detection and alerting: It's weird that I can rewrite history on >> > github, so long as I do it quickly, without anyone noticing. >> >> If no one is verifying the repo, sure, even entire repos could be >> swapped out for seemingly identical ones. >> >> Many repos do not have any strong internal verification structures >> at all, and they run on filesystems that accept bitrot. >> Take a look at some OS's... OpenBSD and FreeBSD, supposedly >> the more secure ones out there... both use legacy repos on FFS. >> Seems rather ironic in the lol department. >> >> Thankfully some people out there are finally getting a clue on these >> issues, making and learning the tools, converting and migrating >> things, working on top down signed build and distribution chain, etc... >> so maybe in ten years the opensource world will be much farther >> ahead. Or at least have a strong audit trail. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Minimize network downtime and maximize team effectiveness. >> Reduce network management and security costs.Learn how to hire >> the most talented Cisco Certified professionals. Visit the >> Employer Resources Portal >> http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/employer_resources/index.html >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> > > --089e0122789e3e560904d9861803 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By the way, I have a download of the Bitcoin-Qt client and= signature verification running in a cron job.=C2=A0


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:11 A= M, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
My general hope/vague plan = for bitcoinj based wallets is to get them all on to automatic updates with = threshold signatures. Combined with regular audits of the initial downloads= for new users, that should give a pretty safe result that is immune to a d= eveloper going rogue.


On Wed, Apr 3= , 2013 at 7:12 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
=
> Users will have available multisig addresses which require
> transactions to be signed off by a wallet HSM. (E.g. a keyfob

Hardware is a good thing. But only if you do the crypto in the
hardware and trust the hardware and its attack models ;) For
instance, the fingerprint readers you see everywhere... many
of them just present the raw fingerprint scan to the host (and
host software), instead of hashing the fingerprint internally and
using that as primitive in crypto exchanges with the host. They
cheaped out and/or didn't think. So oops, there went both your
security (host replay) and your personal privacy (biometrics),
outside of your control. All with no protection against physical
fingerprint lifting.

> This doesn't remove the need to improve repository integrity. ... = but
> repository integrity is a general problem that is applicable to many > things (after all, what does it matter if you can't compromise Bit= coin
> if you can compromise boost, openssl, or gcc?)

Yes, that case would matter zero to the end product. However
having a strong repo permits better auditing of the BTC codebase.
That's a good thing, and eliminates the need to talk chicken and
egg.

> It's probably best
> that Bitcoin specalists stay focused on Bitcoin security measures, and=
> other people interested in repository security come and help out
> improving it. =C2=A0An obvious area of improvement might be oddity
> detection and alerting: =C2=A0It's weird that I can rewrite histor= y on
> github, so long as I do it quickly, without anyone noticing.

If no one is verifying the repo, sure, even entire repos could be
swapped out for seemingly identical ones.

Many repos do not have any strong internal verification structures
at all, and they run on filesystems that accept bitrot.
Take a look at some OS's... OpenBSD and FreeBSD, supposedly
the more secure ones out there... both use legacy repos on FFS.
Seems rather ironic in the lol department.

Thankfully some people out there are finally getting a clue on these
issues, making and learning the tools, converting and migrating
things, working on top down signed build and distribution chain, etc...
so maybe in ten years the opensource world will be much farther
ahead. Or at least have a strong audit trail.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
Minimize network downtime and maximize team effectiveness.
Reduce network management and security costs.Learn how to hire
the most talented Cisco Certified professionals. Visit the
Employer Resources Portal
http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/employer_resources/ind= ex.html
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


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