Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DDAC0001 for ; Sun, 23 May 2021 10:42:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C1D401F1 for ; Sun, 23 May 2021 10:42:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=etc-group.com Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zK0jtwDZSHLR for ; Sun, 23 May 2021 10:42:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7451400D1 for ; Sun, 23 May 2021 10:42:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id z130so13410175wmg.2 for ; Sun, 23 May 2021 03:42:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=etc-group.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Ibr+UxEZbi3Umej7puBtab6vtQfzo8LrwYgoYO68jMY=; b=Vd2UUgVEuWQ41ztr0yAcYo5ATGptUv/ClbPtKfF+I/JKto0GWecBN5l02ElJ6xEslB ZvO1G2ZWmPIp1us04hJ1u1OYZWwGipV/aYulZTwj+J7lzuy5GnonIoABTjAs3rUWR54n XzUk3+7Wdq3tYUkri5Sp9gBnKlET10yeoCRI6Pd4lPHypWfhSwN6tdin3OHqfL/N8kcd G82WWG7Uhc2CjUN7bV7cQ7IG48UsTnb1uypVUpzpATiFSK6teTbMhtnwpTZvZ3y91SfN OKYx7VYkUpnIiHB51BQkR0kCkGRUy6WGWL1t7AeTb9loBwrPsh437vydadhZgQ8vg+gJ bu5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Ibr+UxEZbi3Umej7puBtab6vtQfzo8LrwYgoYO68jMY=; b=mEdrszf1Mv6CzRHsn/edr1Ac2+uKLDabJmQVYecQp51N9PomZZHPPwwe9Vm0NV6OGm PuVIRtOvsMbR/L75Q0Sw/54tR2p0UVa5LMPlJbytMk3+qY7DmvyL0Oh+eaVXsUzGbR64 9bmdsVN/vHUaOQ6PHDZfiKqAr5jEijrEy4k+d+AF8WIUvN/bp+S+xVIw80Ho6YmeFMFf 31INiUEn4VS5DpMW2Po4LM50yWokdKI8WwC5TCyc8XtBEBuEfqej31ssjNXOK6yJgwop 6D0A79wRN2H3i36u3xlcrG3wYkuuUnrFQDGj/4qwEG5nCn+Z0gVoxpIX53rMGWQ4h17+ jCPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532VNNxKUW4tzORZNv6y7YML+P+Sm5hCPPNSbcph2G6Bh4qF8nsJ 8L58UPwFW2D/zbcStsW20SZrvTOt0IQfctErWvIPrA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzF8bp24ZkV6+RLyRZP3ltksApWq/D+vUpVAS2vwz4jNOK3mlWKM+Smc3mmrzC1ZCgnxMjk1IwRm0l48yCYNy8= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cd16:: with SMTP id f22mr15889997wmj.8.1621766576063; Sun, 23 May 2021 03:42:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Anton Ragin Date: Sun, 23 May 2021 11:42:49 +0100 Message-ID: To: James Lu , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000acd92805c2fcf411" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 23 May 2021 11:29:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Reducing block reward via soft fork X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 May 2021 10:42:59 -0000 --000000000000acd92805c2fcf411 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Well, it is done automatically every 4 years :) It is a self-balancing system - more people shout about Bitcoin being dirty -> less adoption -> lower the price -> less energy consumption. Add on top the fact that in 2024 block rewards will fall 50% anyway and someday it will be zero. I am all for making Bitcoin green(er), but IMHO there shall be no short-termism of the sort "Elon complained + price dropped 40% - lets go radically change things". IMHO if we want to make BTC cleaner we can add functionality where users can prioritise some miners over the others, with the view that users will prioritise "green" miners and they will get more TX fees, and there will be economic incentive to go green. On Sun, 23 May 2021, 09:49 James Lu via bitcoin-dev, < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Background > === > Reducing the block reward reduces the incentive to mine. It reduces the > maximum energy price at which mining is profitable, reducing the energy use. > > Bitcoins have value because they are accepted by full node users, from > individual node operators, to exchanges and custodians like Coinbase. > Anything else and the Bitcoins don't exist and are worthless. Like all > currencies, Bitcoin has value because others recognize that they have value. > > Idea > === > Reduce the block reward by adding fewer coins to the UTXO set per block. > This should be done gradually > > Consensus layer > === > This is a soft fork, because it tightens the > > Some Possible Weaknesses > === > - It will cost less than a nation-state of energy to reverse recent > Bitcoin transactions. > - Some miners may protest and lobby exchanges. > - By pushing mining towards the cheapest energy sources, centralization > increases towards Chinese miners. > - The Bitcoin network may split if consensus is not built before flag day. > > However, given the current political headwinds and widespread public > discussion around Bitcoin's energy use, it may be socially possible to > ask individual users and major exchanges to install a version of Bitcoin > with a reduced block reward. > > Alternatives > === > Instead of outright rejecting transactions (and the blocks that contain > them) that attempt to spend increased block rewards, treat them as no-ops. > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --000000000000acd92805c2fcf411 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, it is done automatically every 4 years :) It is a s= elf-balancing system - more people shout about Bitcoin being dirty -> le= ss adoption -> lower the price -> less energy consumption. Add on top= the fact that in 2024 block rewards will fall 50% anyway and someday it wi= ll be zero.

I am all for makin= g Bitcoin green(er), but IMHO there shall be no short-termism of the sort &= quot;Elon complained + price dropped 40% - lets go radically change things&= quot;.

IMHO if we want t= o make BTC cleaner we can add functionality where users can prioritise some= miners over the others, with the view that users will prioritise "gre= en" miners and they will get more TX fees, and there will be economic = incentive to go green.

On Sun, 23 May 2021, 09:49 James Lu via bitco= in-dev, <bitcoi= n-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
Background<= /div>
=3D=3D=3D
Reducing the block reward reduces the incentive to mine. It redu= ces the maximum energy price at which mining is profitable, reducing the en= ergy use.

Bitcoins have value because they are accepted by full node = users, from individual node operators, to exchanges and custodians like Coi= nbase. Anything else and the Bitcoins don't exist and are worthless. Li= ke all currencies, Bitcoin has value because others recognize that they hav= e value.

Idea
=3D=3D=3D
Redu= ce the block reward by adding fewer coins to the UTXO set per block. This s= hould be done gradually

Consensus layer
=3D=3D=3D
This is a soft= fork, because it tightens the=C2=A0
=
Some Possible Weaknesses
=3D=3D=3D
- It will cost less than a nation-state of energy to reverse recent Bit= coin transactions.
- Some miners may = protest and lobby exchanges.
- By= pushing mining towards the cheapest energy sources, centralization increas= es towards Chinese miners.
- The Bitc= oin network may split if consensus is not built before flag day.

Howe= ver, given the current political headwinds and widespread public discussion= around Bitcoin's energy use, it m= ay be socially possible to ask individual use= rs and major exchanges to install a version of Bitcoin with a reduced block= reward.

Alternatives
=3D=3D=3D
Instead of outright rejecting transactions= (and the blocks that contain them) that attempt to spend increased block r= ewards, treat them as no-ops.
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundati= on.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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