Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B558BC4 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2015 23:54:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2F21A7 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2015 23:54:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wicnd19 with SMTP id nd19so43779155wic.1 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2015 16:54:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mTYJZS3AAD5R8nBj0TdWR4eOrS1PWfXm3kbv7lve6bU=; b=yzG7Q7J4zXn7ZmNcWHBMisyZrGm79wBBO7yCE37DH6CkDvju3gqH++Kvkr7m1q/hZm dPWBZG8LUbaN5I7KCNZeNxm9/T9urjAA1IzXvRY0YviHf/rTjHaV+Yfb1rjm0mGWyl7h wkRuoLO8PmGLzSPa+dyC1itLIILYBEm1G0N2lqCGeqM/7HL5ANkwV2YsrOxlqlh9iIoz Rd6P5QycoRzcTujeAki6nbOlnkOfvujIom1d+3mFb+fSIp40USlOu8b2gcPnDlKZDzEM 9DYmcJS2D5COmtBvnMV4PLcJjIu+9k5xXQnBq50ZvgW8H1CSZLdXFp8kqnDcUAdNFzo8 AghQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.75.78 with SMTP id a14mr9862463wiw.68.1435449240289; Sat, 27 Jun 2015 16:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.28.140.196 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Jun 2015 16:54:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 16:54:00 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Garzik To: grarpamp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0438eb9d0f8539051988920f X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, URIBL_BLACK autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Mailing List Administrivia - GPG, Archives, Breakage, TODO, mirrors, etc X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 23:54:06 -0000 --f46d0438eb9d0f8539051988920f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Generally agreed w/ all this. To preserve digital signatures now and in the future, and make mbox archives actually useful, a minimum modification policy is needed. On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 3:21 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Frank Flores wrote: > > If you're going to go through the trouble of signing your public emails > ... > > ... then you should also demand that the official archives of your > favorite lists preserve them and their verifiability in the supposedly > canonical reference "mbox" format that they distribute. > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Wladimir J. van der Laan > wrote: > > Subject: [bitcoin-dev] New GPG signing key for Bitcoin Core binary > releases > > > http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009045.html > http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz > > As you can clearly see, both the HTML archives and the "mbox" > archives have corrupted this message, it will not verify. Do not > try to say this case is trivial, the problem itself is not trivial, > it's gratuitous, and it applies to all matching messages... text, > code, binary inline... that's dangerous. > > Do not try to say this corruption prevents spam, it does not. > Spammers simply subscribe to the list and harvest everything > efficiently in realtime... no webcrawling overhead, no stale > addresses. Obfuscation is futile. > > This misfeature needs to be disabled. > > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Warren Togami Jr. > wrote: > > archives will be exported > > and imported into the new list server > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder > wrote: > > I'm not sure if anyone has submitted a request for gmane > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 5:35 PM, s7r wrote: > > Do we have all the archives imported? I run several full nodes and > > mirrors for open source projects, if you think it's useful, I can > > provide a mirror for the mail list archives. > > Yes... these other mirrors, archives, analysis, journalism, and > interfaces are useful. However, as it is now, there are no useful > authoritative sources for them to seed from... they're all corrupt. > And any subscribed realtime sources, though nice, are subject to > downtime, administrative and other unrecoverable gaps. Your mirror > project is a fine idea, you should demand that the pristine historical > sources be made publicly available. Not just for you, but for everyone. > > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, grarpamp wrote: > > ... > > As before, the current "mbox" archives are broken and not useful... > > a) They corrupt message data, messages are unverifiable, another example... > > http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009132.html > http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz > b) They are missing the minimum set of original headers necessary > for fully replyable, threadable, sortable, searchable, context > preserving and direct use by users MUA's in their local environment: > (Date, From, To, Cc, Subject, Message-ID, In-Reply-To, References) > c) They do not include attachments (patches, signatures, images, crypto, > data) that are absolutely necessary to the context and archives > of all lists. Instead they stupidly throw them away to "web links" > which results not only in uselessness of the so called "mbox" > version, but in many thousands of needless fetches by archive > users and indexers. And hours of wasted work attempting to > postprocess them into usable form. > Valuable content lost from the "mbox" files this June alone: > 418 attachment.html > 106 attachment.sig > 6 attachment.jpe > 4 attachment.png > 2 attachment.bin > d) There appear to be at least 15 instances of unescaped '^From ' > in the "mbox". Regeneration with current mailman may fix. One such > case is here: > > http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004245.html > > http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January.txt.gz > > > > Please fix all the above mentioned issues by providing the full raw > archives in regularly updated [gzip/7z] mbox format. The internet > thanks you :) > > Example, compare the "Downloadable version"s here: > http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/ > https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/ > https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-February/006820.html > > > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder > wrote: > > Regarding message footers and the subject prefix > > Yes, they're also corruptive and space wasting clutter, for and by > the clueless :( Both of them should be turned off. > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --f46d0438eb9d0f8539051988920f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Generally agreed w/ all this.

To preser= ve digital signatures now and in the future, and make mbox archives actuall= y useful, a minimum modification policy is needed.



= On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 3:21 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:14 P= M, Frank Flores <frankf44@gmail.co= m> wrote:
> If you're going to go through the trouble of signing your public e= mails ...

... then you should also demand that the official archives of your
favorite lists preserve them and their verifiability in the supposedly
canonical reference "mbox" format that they distribute.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Wladimir J. van der Laan
<laanwj@gmail.com> wrote:
> Subject: [bitcoin-dev] New GPG signing key for Bitcoin Core binary rel= eases

http://lists.linuxfounda= tion.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009045.html
http://lists.linuxfoundation.= org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz

As you can clearly see, both the HTML archives and the "mbox"
archives have corrupted this message, it will not verify. Do not
try to say this case is trivial, the problem itself is not trivial,
it's gratuitous, and it applies to all matching messages... text,
code, binary inline... that's dangerous.

Do not try to say this corruption prevents spam, it does not.
Spammers simply subscribe to the list and harvest everything
efficiently in realtime... no webcrawling overhead, no stale
addresses. Obfuscation is futile.

This misfeature needs to be disabled.



On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Warren Togami Jr. <wtogami@gmail.com> wrote:
> archives will be exported
> and imported into the new list server

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder <info@andyschroder.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if anyone has submitted a request for gmane

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 5:35 PM, s7r <= s7r@sky-ip.org> wrote:
> Do we have all the archives imported? I run several full nodes and
> mirrors for open source projects, if you think it's useful, I can<= br> > provide a mirror for the mail list archives.

Yes... these other mirrors, archives, analysis, journalism, and
interfaces are useful. However, as it is now, there are no useful
authoritative sources for them to seed from... they're all corrupt.
And any subscribed realtime sources, though nice, are subject to
downtime, administrative and other unrecoverable gaps. Your mirror
project is a fine idea, you should demand that the pristine historical
sources be made publicly available. Not just for you, but for everyone.



On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, grarpamp wrote:
> ...

As before, the current "mbox" archives are broken and not useful.= ..

a) They corrupt message data, messages are unverifiable, another example...=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://list= s.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009132.html
=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://lists.lin= uxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz
b) They are missing the minimum set of original headers necessary
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for fully replyable, threadable, sortable, searchable, context=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0preserving and direct use by users MUA's in their local en= vironment:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Date, From, To, Cc, Subject, Message-ID, In-Reply-To, Referen= ces)
c) They do not include attachments (patches, signatures, images, crypto, =C2=A0 =C2=A0data) that are absolutely necessary to the context and archive= s
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of all lists. Instead they stupidly throw them away to "w= eb links"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0which results not only in uselessness of the so called "m= box"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0version, but in many thousands of needless fetches by archive<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0users and indexers. And hours of wasted work attempting to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0postprocess them into usable form.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Valuable content lost from the "mbox" files this Jun= e alone:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 418 attachment.html
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 106 attachment.sig
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 6 attachment.jpe
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4 attachment.png
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2 attachment.bin
d) There appear to be at least 15 instances of unescaped '^From ' =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the "mbox". Regeneration with current mailman may= fix. One such
=C2=A0 =C2=A0case is here:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://l= ists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004245.html=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://lists.= linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January.txt.gz



Please fix all the above mentioned issues by providing the full raw
archives in regularly updated [gzip/7z] mbox format. The internet
thanks you :)

Example, compare the "Downloadable version"s here:
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bi= tcoin-dev/
https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/
https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cyphe= rpunks/2015-February/006820.html



On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder <info@andyschroder.com> wrote:
> Regarding message footers and the subject prefix

Yes, they're also corruptive and space wasting clutter, for and by
the clueless :( Both of them should be turned off.
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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