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From: Billy Tetrud <billy.tetrud@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:13:27 -0600
Message-ID: <CAGpPWDZqnAo=S_mSH2288kHF6DFS2oKbTqfEzAzNNz4KE2kicA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Asher Hopp <asher@seent.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Draft Submission
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If you're serious about this, you should write up considerations around
using the satoshi as a unit. That unit has none of the problems you
describe. Satoshis is already a well accepted unit, and is likely to be a
very practical one that might match within an order of magnitude of (the
current buying power of) US cents.

> this BIP is a consensus change around the display of Bitcoin wallet
balances

Fyi, this is not something that's considered a "consensus change", which is
something that affects the validity of a block.

On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, 09:19 Asher Hopp via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> This is my first time submitting anything to this mailer list, so I am
> here with humility and I would appreciate any feedback about any aspect o=
f
> my BIP draft submission below. If you want to reach out to me directly yo=
u
> can email me at asher@seent.com.
>
> Abstract
> Rather than having a maximum supply of 21 million Bitcoin, there should b=
e
> a maximum supply of 21 trillion Bitcoin. This can be accomplished by movi=
ng
> the decimal place 6 places to the right of where it is today, while
> reserving two degrees of accuracy after the decimal point.
>
> Copyright
> This BIP is under the Creative Commons Zero (CC0) license.
>
> Background
> On February 6th, 2010 Satoshi Nakamoto responded to a bitcointalk forum
> discussion about the divisibility and economics of bitcoin as a global
> currency. Satoshi chimed in to the conversation when two ideas formed:
> 1. Bitcoin is so scarce that a perception may exist that there is not
> enough to go around =E2=80=93 there is not even 1 Bitcoin available per p=
erson on
> Earth.
> 2. If Bitcoin=E2=80=99s value continues to deflate against inflating fiat
> currencies, Bitcoin transactions may become smaller and smaller, requirin=
g
> the potentially tedious use of many leading 0=E2=80=99s after the decimal=
 point.
>
> Satoshi=E2=80=99s suggested response to these issues was a software updat=
e to
> change where the decimal place and commas are displayed when software
> interprets a Bitcoin wallet=E2=80=99s balance: =E2=80=9CIf it gets tireso=
me working with
> small numbers, we could change where the display shows the decimal point.
> Same amount of money, just different convention for where the ","'s and
> "."'s go.  e.g. moving the decimal place 3 places would mean if you had
> 1.00000 before, now it shows it as 1,000.00.=E2=80=9D (
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D44.msg267#msg267)
>
> Since 2010, when Satoshi wrote that post Bitcoin has indeed become a
> globally adopted currency, the dollar has inflated significantly, and
> Bitcoin has deflated. There are many debates in the Bitcoin community
> concerning the nomenclature of Bitcoin=E2=80=99s atomic unit (satoshis, s=
ats, bits,
> bitcents, mbits, etc). The debate has somewhat spiraled out of control, a=
nd
> there is no clearly emerging community consensus. Additionally this issue
> impacts the technology world outside of Bitcoin because there are several
> proposals for various Unicode characters which factions of the Bitcoin
> community have started using to represent the atomic Bitcoin unit despite
> no formalized consensus.  Therefore The conditions are right to move
> forward with Satoshi's vision and move the decimal place.
>
> Details
> There are several benefits to moving the decimal 6 places to the right in
> Bitcoin wallet balance notation:
> 1. Unit bias. It is a widely held belief that Bitcoin=E2=80=99s adoption =
may be
> hindered because would-be participants have a negative perception of
> Bitcoin=E2=80=99s unit size. One Bitcoin so expensive, and some people ma=
y be
> turned off by the idea of only owning a fraction of a unit.
> 2. Community cohesion. The Bitcoin community is deeply divided by various
> proposed atomic unit names, but if this BIP is adopted there is no need t=
o
> debate nomenclature for the Bitcoin atomic unit. Bitcoin software provide=
rs
> can simply continue using the Bitcoin Unicode character (=E2=82=BF, U+20B=
F), and
> there are no additional unicode characters required.
> 3. Simplicity and standardization. Bitcoin has no borders and is used by
> people in just about every corner of the world. Other than the name Bitco=
in
> and the Unicode character we have, there is no consensus around other
> notations for Bitcoin as a currency. Rather than introducing new concepts
> for people to learn, this BIP allows Bitcoin to grow under a single
> standardized unit specification, with a single standard unit name, unit
> size, and unit Unicode character.
>
> There is only one drawback I can identify with this BIP, and it is purely
> psychological. Moving the decimal place may produce bad optics in the
> short-term, and Bitcoin=E2=80=99s detractors will likely seize the opport=
unity to
> spread misinformation that moving the decimal place changes the monetary
> value of anyone=E2=80=99s Bitcoin. It is important to note that if this B=
IP were to
> gain consensus approval, the community would need to prepare talking poin=
ts
> and coordinate educational outreach efforts to explain to Bitcoin users a=
nd
> wallet developers that this change does not change the proportion of the
> total value of Bitcoin any particular wallet holds, and is simply a
> notational change. There are no =E2=80=9Cwinners=E2=80=9D and no =E2=80=
=9Closers=E2=80=9D in this BIP =E2=80=93 all
> Bitcoin participants would be impacted in an equal and proportionate mann=
er
> on pari passu terms, and there is no change to Bitcoin=E2=80=99s monetary=
 policy.
>
> Implementation
> The software updates needed to implement this BIP are restricted to the
> wallet's CLI/GUI configuration, and only involve changing the location of
> the decimal point and commas when viewing balances or reviewing transacti=
on
> data. Each wallet provider including Bitcoin Core would simply need to
> update the display of a wallet=E2=80=99s balance by moving the decimal pl=
ace 6
> places to the right.
>
> Compatibility
> Because this BIP is a consensus change around the display of Bitcoin
> wallet balances and transaction amounts, everything will be backwards
> compatible with previous versions of Bitcoin. There would be no
> interruption in services for Bitcoin wallets which do not implement this
> BIP, however there could conceivably be human error problems with
> miscommunication between counterparties after this BIP is implemented. I
> believe this risk is extremely minimal because an error of 6 decimal plac=
es
> is so significant that it should be immediately noticed by any two partie=
s
> conducting a transaction.
>
> Cheers,
> Asher
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto">If y=
ou&#39;re serious about this, you should write up considerations around usi=
ng the satoshi as a unit. That unit has none of the problems you describe. =
Satoshis is already a well accepted unit, and is likely to be a very practi=
cal one that might match within an order of magnitude of (the current buyin=
g power of) US cents.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>&gt;=C2=A0<spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.8px">this BIP is a consensus change around the disp=
lay of Bitcoin wallet balances</span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12=
.8px">Fyi, this is not something that&#39;s considered a &quot;consensus ch=
ange&quot;, which is something that affects the validity of a block.=C2=A0<=
/span></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"=
gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, 09:19 Asher Hopp via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>This is my first time=
 submitting anything to this mailer list, so I am here with humility and I =
would appreciate any feedback about any aspect of my BIP draft submission b=
elow. If you want to reach out to me directly you can email me at <a href=
=3D"mailto:asher@seent.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>asher@seent.com</a>.</div><div><br></div>Abstract<br>Rather than having a =
maximum supply of 21 million Bitcoin, there should be a maximum supply of 2=
1 trillion Bitcoin. This can be accomplished by moving the decimal place 6 =
places to the right of where it is today, while reserving two degrees of ac=
curacy after the decimal point.<br><br>Copyright<br>This BIP is under the C=
reative Commons Zero (CC0) license.<br><br>Background<br>On February 6th, 2=
010 Satoshi Nakamoto responded to a bitcointalk forum discussion about the =
divisibility and economics of bitcoin as a global currency. Satoshi chimed =
in to the conversation when two ideas formed:<br>1. Bitcoin is so scarce th=
at a perception may exist that there is not enough to go around =E2=80=93 t=
here is not even 1 Bitcoin available per person on Earth.<br>2. If Bitcoin=
=E2=80=99s value continues to deflate against inflating fiat currencies, Bi=
tcoin transactions may become smaller and smaller, requiring the potentiall=
y tedious use of many leading 0=E2=80=99s after the decimal point.<br><br>S=
atoshi=E2=80=99s suggested response to these issues was a software update t=
o change where the decimal place and commas are displayed when software int=
erprets a Bitcoin wallet=E2=80=99s balance: =E2=80=9CIf it gets tiresome wo=
rking with small numbers, we could change where the display shows the decim=
al point.=C2=A0 Same amount of money, just different convention for where t=
he &quot;,&quot;&#39;s and &quot;.&quot;&#39;s go. =C2=A0e.g. moving the de=
cimal place 3 places would mean if you had 1.00000 before, now it shows it =
as 1,000.00.=E2=80=9D (<a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=
=3D44.msg267#msg267" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D44.msg267#msg267</a>)<br><br>Since 2010=
, when Satoshi wrote that post Bitcoin has indeed become a globally adopted=
 currency, the dollar has inflated significantly, and Bitcoin has deflated.=
 There are many debates in the Bitcoin community concerning the nomenclatur=
e of Bitcoin=E2=80=99s atomic unit (satoshis, sats, bits, bitcents, mbits, =
etc). The debate has somewhat spiraled out of control, and there is no clea=
rly emerging community consensus. Additionally this issue impacts the techn=
ology world outside of Bitcoin because there are several proposals for vari=
ous Unicode characters which factions of the Bitcoin community have started=
 using to represent the atomic Bitcoin unit despite no formalized consensus=
.=C2=A0 Therefore The conditions are right to move forward with Satoshi&#39=
;s vision and move the decimal place.<div><br>Details<br>There are several =
benefits to moving the decimal 6 places to the right in Bitcoin wallet bala=
nce notation:<br>1. Unit bias. It is a widely held belief that Bitcoin=E2=
=80=99s adoption may be hindered because would-be participants have a negat=
ive perception of Bitcoin=E2=80=99s unit size. One Bitcoin so expensive, an=
d some people may be turned off by the idea of only owning a fraction of a =
unit.<br>2. Community cohesion. The Bitcoin community is deeply divided by =
various proposed atomic unit names, but if this BIP is adopted there is no =
need to debate nomenclature for the Bitcoin atomic unit. Bitcoin software p=
roviders can simply continue using the Bitcoin Unicode character (=E2=82=BF=
, U+20BF), and there are no additional unicode characters required.<br>3. S=
implicity and standardization. Bitcoin has no borders and is used by people=
 in just about every corner of the world. Other than the name Bitcoin and t=
he Unicode character we have, there is no consensus around other notations =
for Bitcoin as a currency. Rather than introducing new concepts for people =
to learn, this BIP allows Bitcoin to grow under a single standardized unit =
specification, with a single standard unit name, unit size, and unit Unicod=
e character.<br><br>There is only one drawback I can identify with this BIP=
, and it is purely psychological. Moving the decimal place may produce bad =
optics in the short-term, and Bitcoin=E2=80=99s detractors will likely seiz=
e the opportunity to spread misinformation that moving the decimal place ch=
anges the monetary value of anyone=E2=80=99s Bitcoin. It is important to no=
te that if this BIP were to gain consensus approval, the community would ne=
ed to prepare talking points and coordinate educational outreach efforts to=
 explain to Bitcoin users and wallet developers that this change does not c=
hange the proportion of the total value of Bitcoin any particular wallet ho=
lds, and is simply a notational change. There are no =E2=80=9Cwinners=E2=80=
=9D and no =E2=80=9Closers=E2=80=9D in this BIP =E2=80=93 all Bitcoin parti=
cipants would be impacted in an equal and proportionate manner on pari pass=
u terms, and there is no change to Bitcoin=E2=80=99s monetary policy. <br><=
br>Implementation<br>The software updates needed to implement this BIP are =
restricted to the wallet&#39;s CLI/GUI configuration,=C2=A0and only involve=
 changing the location of the decimal point and commas when viewing balance=
s or reviewing transaction data. Each wallet provider including Bitcoin Cor=
e would simply need to update the display of a wallet=E2=80=99s balance by =
moving the decimal place 6 places to the right.<br><br>Compatibility<br>Bec=
ause this BIP is a consensus change around the display of Bitcoin wallet ba=
lances and transaction amounts, everything will be backwards compatible wit=
h previous versions of Bitcoin. There would be no interruption in services =
for Bitcoin wallets which do not implement this BIP, however there could co=
nceivably be human error problems with miscommunication between counterpart=
ies after this BIP is implemented. I believe this risk is extremely minimal=
 because an error of 6 decimal places is so significant that it should be i=
mmediately noticed by any two parties conducting a transaction.<div><div><b=
r></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Asher</div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.li=
nuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
</div>

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