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From: Bryan Bishop <kanzure@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 21:48:38 -0500
Message-ID: <CABaSBawY0P4GM-5dcyznLgTkAfm7qmDt-8BgMPWSCcvfRH-MHA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Paul Sztorc <truthcoin@gmail.com>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	Bryan Bishop <kanzure@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Updating the Scaling Roadmap
Precedence: list

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 8:40 PM, Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> it, etc. But I am not willing to press the issue. Some of your other
> comments I also find confusing but there is little to be gained in
> clarifying them. )

To me it looked as if I was reading an email that was making a bunch
of points about how bitcoin development can't be coordinated and how
things would be broken if it were to be coordinated ("high authority
edicts"). There was a lot of harm caused by calling that 2015 email a
roadmap. Somehow-- and there's no way to figure out how this happened
I guess- people started putting timeline commitments to different
features. But there's really no way to guarantee any of those
timelines. And I think it's very quick to reach the point of unethical
to advocate a perspective that there's guarantee to things will happen
according to that timeline in the standard bitcoin development model.
I think there's already such a huge amount of public misunderstanding
around how bitcoin development works that giving guarantees even as a
community would further increase the misunderstandings.

> Generally, I still think that the roadmap was a helpful communication
> device, which did more good than harm. And I am interested in hearing
> what other people think.

I think generally communicating about research directions and projects
is useful and valuable, and I don't see any disagreement about that in
itself from anyone in this thread. I recommend an abundance of caution
with regards to whether to call these efforts roadmaps.

>> Come now, this is needlessly insulting. I would have made the same
>> comment if you had talked to me because you didn't talk to most/all of
>> Matt Corallo, Wladimir, Pieter Wuille, Alex Morcos, etc.... e.g. the
>> people doing most of the work of actually building the system.  Before
>> making that comment I went and checked with people to find out if only
>> I was left out.  Talking to Adam (who isn't involved in the project)
>> and Luke-jr (who is but is well known for frustratingly extreme
>> minority positions and also contracts for Blockstream sometimes) isn't
>
> Let me try to explain my point of view. I did speak to several people,
> in addition to the two names that I privately volunteered to you when
> you had done no research (you failed to uncover any additional names),

Well I mean he did look at some of the people putting the most effort
into bitcoin development. Why would he start at the other end of the
list as a rough check..?

> suggested that, other than yourself and a few others, no one is
> qualified even to write a first draft of a summary of present day

Those suggestions were mixed with strong avocado that summaries are
good, coupled with recommendations that these aren't really roadmaps.
As to qualifying from where knowledge is sourced, yeah it seems like
talking with developers is a good idea, it seems everyone agrees with
that in this thread.

> activities. This response is typical of the hostile review environment
> which has existed in Bitcoin for years (I am more than used to it). If

Well, to the extent that criticism is being misinterpreted as hostile,
I have seen people get upset from basic security review because "why
were't we more friendly and just say OK instead of pointing out the
problems".

- Bryan
http://heybryan.org/
1 512 203 0507