To: =?UTF-8?Q?Emin_G=c3=bcn_Sirer?= <el33th4x0r@gmail.com>,
	Bob McElrath <bob@mcelrath.org>
References: <CAPkFh0viwmkUvjo4Qj50TNnkA5kG3z-3dLGExjkmDacE4E49Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<20151014182055.GC23875@mcelrath.org>
	<CAPkFh0uQjTijLdG=eicaotKYvPEcKqNZhqC5BmY45pYcRyhALQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: odinn <odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <561ED55F.2000506@riseup.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:21:19 +0000
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Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Ittay Eyal <ittay.eyal@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin-NG whitepaper.
Precedence: list

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This (Bitcoin-NG in concept) could be done as a (issue and pull
request process) to Bitcoin Core itself, amirite?  It seems like it
would provide an interesting issue to open and have healthy discussion
on both mailing list and github, adding the caveat that it would be at
the user's option.  Thus if something like Bitcoin-NG did come to be
it would be something more like a feature that the user could activate
/ deactivate from within Core.  I assume it would be default off, but
with the option to utilize.  Code would thus be available to others as
well.  I am not saying yea or nay on it, just that it seems like this
could be done.

Some notes:

Once a node generates a key block it becomes the leader.  As a leader,
the node is allowed to generate  microblocks  at  a  set  rate
smaller  than  a  predened  maximum.  A  microblock in Bitcoin-NG
contains  ledger  entries  and  a  header.   The  header  contains
the  reference  to the  previous  block,  the  current  GMT  time,  a
 cryptographic  hash  of  its  ledger  entries,  and  a cryptographic
 signature  of  the  header.   The  signature  uses  the  private  key
 that  matches  the public key in the latest key block in the chain.
For a microblock to be valid, all its entries must be valid according
to the specification of the state machine, and the signature has to be
valid.  However, the microblocks, it is said, don't affect the weight
of the chain, because they do not contain proof of work.  It is
assumed by the authors of this model that this situation is critical
for maintaining incentives here.

The questions that then begin to emerge to me are how is this
information managed and protected?  The headers, thus containing
reference(s) to previous block(s), current GMT time(s), cryptographic
hash(es) of ledger entries, and cryptographic signature(s) of the
headers, so forth, and other information.  Can the Bitcoin-NG scheme
be designed or implemented in a manner which supports Stealth sends,
Confidential Transactions, or similar privacy measures?  Or is this
something which cannot be answered at this time?

Emin Gün Sirer via bitcoin-dev:
>> So it seems to me that all I need to do is figure out who the
>> current
> leader is,
>> and DDoS him off the network to shut Bitcoin-NG down.
> 
> Good point. If NG is layered on top of Bitcoin, we'd retain all of
> Bitcoin as is. This would confer all the benefits of Bitcoin's
> retrospective blocks, as well as add the ability to mint
> microblocks with low latency in between. And despite the phrase
> "the leader," the actual leader in NG is a key, not a specific
> node. That makes it possible to deter DDoS attacks by dynamically
> migrating where in the network the leader is operating in response
> to an attack. Finally, DDoS attacks against miners are already 
> possible, but they seem rare, and I suspect it's at least partly
> because of the success of Matt Corallo's high speed bitcoin relay
> network. Similar defenses can apply here.
> 
> - egs
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Bob McElrath <bob@mcelrath.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> So it seems to me that all I need to do is figure out who the
>> current leader is, and DDoS him off the network to shut
>> Bitcoin-NG down.
>> 
>> This is a significant advantage to bitcoin's ex-post-facto
>> blocks: no one knows where the next one will come from.  The only
>> way to shut the network down is to shut all nodes down.
>> 
>> Emin Gün Sirer via bitcoin-dev
>> [bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org] wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> We just released the whitepaper describing Bitcoin-NG, a new
>>> technique
>> for
>>> addressing some of the scalability challenges faced by
>>> Bitcoin.
>> Surprisingly,
>>> Bitcoin-NG can simultaneously increase throughput while
>>> reducing
>> latency, and
>>> do so without impacting Bitcoin's open architecture or changing
>>> its trust model. This post illustrates the core technique: 
>>> http://hackingdistributed.com/2015/10/14/bitcoin-ng/ while the
>>> whitepaper has all the nitty gritty details: 
>>> http://arxiv.org/abs/1510.02037
>>> 
>>> Fitting NG on top of the current Bitcoin blockchain is future
>>> work that
>> we
>>> think is quite possible. NG is compatible with both Bitcoin as
>>> is, as
>> well as
>>> Blockstream-like sidechains, and we currently are not planning
>>> to compete commercially with either technology -- we see NG as
>>> being complementary
>> to both
>>> efforts. This is pure science, published and shared with the
>>> community to advance the state of blockchains and to help them
>>> reach throughputs and latencies required of cutting edge
>>> fintech applications. Perhaps it can
>> be
>>> adopted, or perhaps it can provide the spark of inspiration for
>>> someone
>> else to
>>> come up with even better solutions.
>>> 
>>> We would be delighted to hear your feedback. - Ittay Eyal and
>>> E. Gün Sirer.
>>> 
>>> !DSPAM:561e98cd301391127216946!
>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev
>>> mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org 
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>> 
>>> 
>>> !DSPAM:561e98cd301391127216946!
>> 
>> -- Cheers, Bob McElrath
>> 
>> "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple,
>> neat, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org 
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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