Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z2m5N-0005mc-90 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:54:53 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.180; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-ob0-f180.google.com; Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z2m5L-0004ZS-Rt for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:54:53 +0000 Received: by obbsn1 with SMTP id sn1so18833360obb.1 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:54:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=ndLzu+J3fp3WIrqbvlfSdrszazknCGMmxlZlbSxQY58=; b=IAspPh1Oev5M+ESgwNfr2Q3pSKzA5L/z49kG93tm8RdVIylZ3CABdB6XEl7l7nCAkm J30hMoAY56ZwPr5y2RoEaAqQmsdKGcieaw8yOkFuYN1oIej7BFu0hx8V9jrTGrqD0Xs9 DQJDqOyMRefysgo3de9qPD8AXPUxQW5Y3CziQwY9lKFdRlM5m/a624RBZRNUWet31eE8 T8Z3GEoZOMw4/NPIrvFObunYkTC//zfn6V6Z6NkksqDekBYWd6FXsR5/vIQCDjkVq/01 eaKmeaXag99t7KzvQywwoEAKRKIuUzok+S9XTDRe23PH+W+tuqegipjzfLC5lUxz0fQe NNYw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlxv8LhwpTsjpbJ1Bhr+v/j+m65Rb+pM3pdh8ZBqW/SiBo6bDFROivqSP++V28kyQCCmSAF X-Received: by 10.202.102.227 with SMTP id m96mr4064899oik.98.1433966086274; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:54:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.108.149 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:54:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55788924.6090008@AndySchroder.com> References: <1943127.DBnVxmfOIh@1337h4x0r> <20150610093556.GA11409@amethyst.visucore.com> <557869F9.8030109@AndySchroder.com> <557883A7.7030906@sky-ip.org> <55788924.6090008@AndySchroder.com> From: Jeff Garzik Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:54:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Andy Schroder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140a1ba31578705182f3fa3 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1Z2m5L-0004ZS-Rt Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Is SourceForge still trustworthy enough to host this list? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:54:53 -0000 --001a1140a1ba31578705182f3fa3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Andy Schroder wrote: > Hello, > > A couple of motivations for a mailing list switch: > > 1. Sometimes the mailing list delays delivery for 10 minutes to > several days. > 2. There are usually lots of ads at the footer of the messages. Really > confuses new readers (for me at least), and seems like it really pollutes > such a historical dialog that may be referenced long into the future. How > would it be if the 10 Commandments, Magna Carta, Bill of Rights, The Sermon > on the Mount, or The Gettysburg Address had ads intertwined within them? > 3. Don't think HTML messages are allowed. > 4. Seems like digital signatures are always broken on messages because > the list server slightly modifies them (?), so my e-mail client doesn't > verify them all. > > Not only -- mail header rewrites cause all my emails to go into people's spam folders, if they were not directly listed in the To/CC headers... > > 1. > > > > Andy Schroder > > On 06/10/2015 02:36 PM, s7r wrote: > > The mail list is public, so it's not like the data on it is somehow > sensitive. Sourcefoge is fine, it has a nice web UI where you can browse > the message and sort/order them as you want, etc. > > Why would you want to move to a paid solution? And why would you want > users to have to pay per message? This is the worst idea ever from my > point of view. We want to encourage people to join the community, run > full nodes, ask questions, come with solutions, ideas for improvements > and so on. Everyone should read and write and contribute as much as > possible with ideas in debates. You never know who can have bright ideas > in some contexts. > > Bottom line is so far sourceforge handles the mail lists just fine. I > don't see a single advantage another mail list provider / system could > offer, except some headache and extra work for migration. The software > distribution via sourcefoge was cancelled for obvious reasons which I > fully understand and agree to, but it has nothing to do with the mail > lists. We have way more important things to brainstorm about. > > On 6/10/2015 7:46 PM, Andy Schroder wrote: > > Regarding changing the e-mail list provider. Is anyone interested in > sponsoring it? There are non-free options, but it may be difficult to > always ensure the fee is being paid to the provider. I think finding an > agreeable free solution may have been the issue before? I've also > thought of trying to make a pay per message or byte solution (and this > cost could be dynamic based upon the number of current mailing list > subscribers). This could solve the who pays problem (the sender pays), > as well as motivate people to be more concise and clear with their > messages, and at the same time limit spam. > > > > Any thoughts? > > Andy Schroder > > On 06/10/2015 05:35 AM, Wladimir J. van der Laan wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 10:25:12AM +0200, xor wrote: > > http://www.howtogeek.com/218764/warning-don%E2%80%99t-download-software-from-sourceforge-if-you-can-help-it/ > > All our downloads (even old ones) have recently been deleted from sourceforge, for this reason. They haven't been mentioned in Bitcon Core release announcements for a long time. > > No opinion on the mailing list. Though I think it's less urgent. The issue of moving the mailinglist has come up before a few times and people can't agree where to move to. > > Wladimir > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing listBitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ --001a1140a1ba31578705182f3fa3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Andy Schroder <<= a href=3D"mailto:info@andyschroder.com" target=3D"_blank">info@andyschroder= .com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Hello,

A couple of motivations for a mailing list switch:
  1. Sometimes the mailing list delays delivery for 10 minutes to several days.
  2. There are usually lots of ads at the footer of the messages. Really confuses new readers (for me at least), and seems like it really pollutes such a historical dialog that may be referenced long into the future. How would it be if the 10 Commandments, Magna Carta, Bill of Rights, The Sermon on the Mount, or The Gettysburg Address had ads intertwined within them?
  3. Don't think HTML messages are allowed.
  4. Seems like digital signatures are always broken on messages because the list server slightly modifies them (?), so my e-mail client doesn't verify them all.
<= /blockquote>
Not only -- mail header rewrites cause all my emails to go= into people's spam folders, if they were not directly listed in the To= /CC headers...


=C2=A0
    <= li>
     


Andy Schroder
On 06/10/2015 02:36 PM, s7r wrote:
The mail list is public, so it's not like the data on it is =
somehow
sensitive. Sourcefoge is fine, it has a nice web UI where you can browse
the message and sort/order them as you want, etc.

Why would you want to move to a paid solution? And why would you want
users to have to pay per message? This is the worst idea ever from my
point of view. We want to encourage people to join the community, run
full nodes, ask questions, come with solutions, ideas for improvements
and so on. Everyone should read and write and contribute as much as
possible with ideas in debates. You never know who can have bright ideas
in some contexts.

Bottom line is so far sourceforge handles the mail lists just fine. I
don't see a single advantage another mail list provider / system could
offer, except some headache and extra work for migration. The software
distribution via sourcefoge was cancelled for obvious reasons which I
fully understand and agree to, but it has nothing to do with the mail
lists. We have way more important things to brainstorm about.

On 6/10/2015 7:46 PM, Andy Schroder wrote:

Regarding changing the e-mail list provider. Is anyone interes=
ted in=20
sponsoring it? There are non-free options, but it may be difficult to=20
always ensure the fee is being paid to the provider. I think finding an=20
agreeable free solution may have been the issue before? I've also=20
thought of trying to make a pay per message or byte solution (and this=20
cost could be dynamic based upon the number of current mailing list=20
subscribers). This could solve the who pays problem (the sender pays),=20
as well as motivate people to be more concise and clear with their=20
messages, and at the same time limit spam.



Any thoughts?

Andy Schroder

On 06/10/2015 05:35 AM, Wladimir J. van der Laan wrote:

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 10:25:12AM +0200, xor wrote:

http://www.howtogeek.com/218764/warning-don%E2%80%99t-download-softwa=
re-from-sourceforge-if-you-can-help-it/

All our downloads (even old ones) have recently been deleted=
 from sourceforge, for this reason. They haven't been mentioned in Bitc=
on Core release announcements for a long time.

No opinion on the mailing list. Though I think it's less urgent. The is=
sue of moving the mailinglist has come up before a few times and people can=
't agree where to move to.

Wladimir


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---

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Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment



    

    

  



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-------


_______________________________________________

Bitcoin-development mailing list

Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment





-- 
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open sourc=
e evangelist
BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://bitpay.com/




--001a1140a1ba31578705182f3fa3--