Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3031E8B4 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:10:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-la0-f48.google.com (mail-la0-f48.google.com [209.85.215.48]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5660616F for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:10:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lahi9 with SMTP id i9so14564903lah.2 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:09:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=PJ02+NAeUBbCP/P8Lhiy3B6tebMyDUQ7R+OKHiJAlho=; b=FLLdnEcK5HCH87uDky7zIxFGKdgBj/98A4ENIOZt+FW/AkSbHh3Yh0TYpay4AUbUK0 OAprCDSHAFLJ/Qii64XpJNhcIaLxocvVOpRyWZvK1nUH30hT0yXOiBejy7jshTByUyJi 8EoDMqVjgiBkQeY66JX3HGzZ5b7iFebKGQEwm2C6gTovLDBwC0ZI3HyYNkkkyB6ZnZOt EUBHzdxYkz1gD9AS9WDwPfN3R2nM5Ez1L0WQlQnsFJw9Jf15ki54AhGg/yJs5Vf4VP// siUIKsXAZP62++g5Iw8/BGa1lTl9shrwRNTBveZh12rze+5j0vi2UBuMA+6s4oEhMYKF jsHA== X-Received: by 10.152.8.130 with SMTP id r2mr17629725laa.17.1439158198896; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:09:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.22.25 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 15:09:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55C7CECB.7050905@gmail.com> References: <55C79FF0.8040100@thinlink.com> <55C7CECB.7050905@gmail.com> From: Hector Chu Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 23:09:39 +0100 Message-ID: To: Patrick Strateman Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158b8e4389035051ce8219c X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAD_CREDIT,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What Lightning Is X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:10:01 -0000 --089e0158b8e4389035051ce8219c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Right, you've stated a bunch of facts, but how does it answer my concerns of the exploding cost of the network the more interconnected it it? On 9 August 2015 at 23:06, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > I suspect there is some amount of confusion here on terms. > > The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment channels. > > The hub's entire business is centered around having payment channels open > with other hubs/users. > > If the hub requires user funds to open these channels... then the users > have no reason to pay the hub anything in fees. > > A hub that doesn't use it's own funds to open payment channels to other > hubs/merchants is useless. > > > On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, "Mark Friedenbach" wrote: > > > On the contrary the funds were advanced by the hub on the creation of > the channel. There is no credit involved. > > That's a chuckle. > > As I said, nothing requires the hub to advance anything, and if it does, > Bob can expect to pay for it. > > We'll see whether hubs assess a fee for depositing funds, whether the fee > depends on the amount deposited, and whether it depends on the amount of > time it stays there. > > I predict "all of the above." There is a name for these kinds of fees. > Can you guess it? > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing listbitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.orghttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --089e0158b8e4389035051ce8219c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Right, you've stated a bunch of facts, but how does it= answer my concerns of the exploding cost of the network the more interconn= ected it it?

On 9 August 2015 at 23:06, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
I suspect there is some amount of confusion here on terms.

The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment channels.

The hub's entire business is centered around having payment channel= s open with other hubs/users.

If the hub requires user funds to open these channels... then the users have no reason to pay the hub anything in fees.

A hub that doesn't use it's own funds to open payment channels = to other hubs/merchants is useless.


On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote:

On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, "Mark Friedenbach" = <mark@friedenb= ach.org> wrote:

> On the contrary the funds were advanced by the hub on the creation of the channel. There is no credit involved.

That's a chuckle.=C2=A0

As I said, nothing requires the hub to advance anything, and if it does, Bob can expect to pay for it.

We'll see whether hubs assess a fee for depositing funds, whether the fee depends on the amount deposited, and whether it depends on the amount of time it stays there.

I predict "all of the above." There is a nam= e for these kinds of fees.=C2=A0 Can you guess it?



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