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Thread-Topic: [bitcoin-dev] UASF (LOT=true) kick off meeting - Tuesday March
 2nd 19:00 UTC on ##uasf IRC channel
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From: Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces <arielluaces@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2021 10:22:35 -0800
To: Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gmail.com>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <b56bd582-e605-4389-96ce-c1cb0c58f1ad@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] UASF (LOT=true) kick off meeting - Tuesday March
	2nd 19:00 UTC on ##uasf IRC channel
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It's becoming increasingly clear that core might not be able to release act=
ivation code=2E

Anyone advocating for a UASF must do tremendous amounts of=
 work to convince users, miners, and service providers to run a UASF client=
=2E Anyone advocating against a UASF or indifferent will take the path of l=
east resistance and ignore the rogue client=2E If the movement fails to mat=
erialize we will be looking at a minor chain split one year later and a yea=
r of wasted time=2E At that moment LOT=3Dfalse can be finally released and =
calmer heads can activate on the majority chain=2E

The choice has never be=
en LOT=3Dfalse versus LOT=3Dtrue=2E It has always been about the order=2E S=
ome think LOT=3Dtrue should be attempted first and some think LOT=3Dfalse s=
hould be attempted first=2E And the grand majority are indifferent to the c=
hoice (won't upgrade until core says it's safe)=2E

I'm realizing that a cl=
ear advantage of LOT=3Dfalse is that it can happen without the need for a s=
ocial movement=2E All that is really needed is the convincing of 95% miners=
=2E Apathetic users will never notice any kind of service disruption no mat=
ter the success or failure of the activation=2E This is obviously why it na=
turally became the default activation method=2E

While LOT=3Dtrue, on the o=
ther hand, must be able to 51% the blockchain to win the apathetic users=2E=
 But then the reorgs will not be pretty=2E Or if it ever clearly gets over =
the 51% hurdle then all apathetic users now need to scramble to use the rog=
ue client to be safe from reorgs=2E Either way it's disruptive=2E

Please, =
I'm begging you, let's just try LOT=3Dfalse first=2E Let's halt the fight f=
or this new UASF movement until it's needed=2E Social movements are hard=2E=
 Especially hard when the people you're trying to convince don't have a mat=
erial threat to their beliefs or freedoms=2E It would be a shame to meet ba=
ck here a year later after the risk of verbal conflicts, misdirection, lies=
, vilinization, reorgs, double spends, PoW changes, and threats galore=2E

=
P=2ES=2E I don't think I'm being so apocalyptic this time=2E I actually see=
 all of those things as *necessary* to the UASF movement=2E Otherwise peopl=
e won't be convinced to take a side=2E

Cheers
Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces


On Ma=
r 1, 2021, 1:06 PM, at 1:06 PM, Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-de=
v@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg> wrote:
>It is approximately 8 months since=
 Steve Lee formally kicked off the
>Taproot activation discussion by settin=
g up the ##taproot-activation
>IRC channel=2E Obviously there was discussio=
n that considerably predates
>that but that was the first recognition that =
there needed to be a
>focus towards a solution rather than endless circular=
 debates=2E
>
>Eight months on it appears there are some who think there is=
 a
>philosopher=E2=80=99s stone still out there that will garner 100 percen=
t
>consensus and contain zero chain split risk in the worst case
>scenario=
=2E A philosopher=E2=80=99s stone that us mere mortals have failed to
>find=
 in these 8 months=2E
>
>While I would be delighted if this philosopher=E2=
=80=99s stone is found (and
>all are free to continue looking) I think it i=
s prudent at this point
>to step away from the circular arguments and build=
 on the progress we
>have made in these last 8 months=2E We have effectivel=
y achieved
>overwhelming consensus on the activation mechanism (BIP 8) and =
all of
>the parameters apart from one (lockinontimeout or LOT)=2E Again I=
=E2=80=99d like
>to thank the people who have put hours of work into gettin=
g to this
>point=2E It is thankless work and it is probably the last thing =
any of
>us want to be doing=2E
>
>At this point it is unclear whether Bitco=
in Core will be able to
>release any activation code whatsoever due to disa=
greement logjams=2E
>Personally I hope they do but again it is prudent to p=
repare for the
>scenario where Core is unable to=2E Hence I and others have=
 assessed
>that our energies are better spent working on a community releas=
e
>implementing LOT=3Dtrue in a similar spirit to 2017=E2=80=99s UASF effor=
t=2E I say
>similar as this time there really is no need for any antagonism=
=2E
>Approximately 90 percent of mining pools (taprootactivation=2Ecom) hav=
e
>declared support and there is overwhelming community consensus to
>activ=
ate Taproot=2E In the absence of a Core release with activation
>code I hop=
e and expect all users (including miners) to consider
>supporting this UASF=
 release and consider running it to activate
>Taproot=2E
>
>TL;DR Tomorrow =
(Tuesday) we are holding a kick off meeting for this
>UASF (LOT=3Dtrue) eff=
ort on the ##uasf IRC channel at 19:00 UTC=2E Please
>consider attending an=
d supporting this effort to get Taproot
>activated=2E It would be great to =
get users from the 2017 effort
>involved in addition to recent Taproot prop=
onents from all parts of
>our community=2E The future of Bitcoin=E2=80=99s =
scalability and privacy depends
>on, as it always has, on you the user=2E
>=

>-- 
>Michael Folkson
>Email: michaelfolkson@gmail=2Ecom
>Keybase: michael=
folkson
>PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3
>__________=
_____________________________________
>bitcoin-dev mailing list
>bitcoin-de=
v@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg
>https://lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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<html><head></head><body><div dir=3D"auto">It's becoming increasingly clear=
 that core might not be able to release activation code=2E<br><br></div>
<d=
iv dir=3D"auto">Anyone advocating for a UASF must do tremendous amounts of =
work to convince users, miners, and service providers to run a UASF client=
=2E Anyone advocating against a UASF or indifferent will take the path of l=
east resistance and ignore the rogue client=2E If the movement fails to mat=
erialize we will be looking at a minor chain split one year later and a yea=
r of wasted time=2E At that moment LOT=3Dfalse can be finally released and =
calmer heads can activate on the majority chain=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=
=3D"auto">The choice has never been LOT=3Dfalse versus LOT=3Dtrue=2E It has=
 always been about the order=2E Some think LOT=3Dtrue should be attempted f=
irst and some think LOT=3Dfalse should be attempted first=2E And the grand =
majority are indifferent to the choice (won't upgrade until core says it's =
safe)=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm realizing that a clear advanta=
ge of LOT=3Dfalse is that it can happen without the need for a social movem=
ent=2E All that is really needed is the convincing of 95% miners=2E Apathet=
ic users will never notice any kind of service disruption no matter the suc=
cess or failure of the activation=2E This is obviously why it naturally bec=
ame the default activation method=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">While =
LOT=3Dtrue, on the other hand, must be able to 51% the blockchain to win th=
e apathetic users=2E But then the reorgs will not be pretty=2E Or if it eve=
r clearly gets over the 51% hurdle then all apathetic users now need to scr=
amble to use the rogue client to be safe from reorgs=2E Either way it's dis=
ruptive=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Please, I'm begging you, let's j=
ust try LOT=3Dfalse first=2E Let's halt the fight for this new UASF movemen=
t until it's needed=2E Social movements are hard=2E Especially hard when th=
e people you're trying to convince don't have a material threat to their be=
liefs or freedoms=2E It would be a shame to meet back here a year later aft=
er the risk of verbal conflicts, misdirection, lies, vilinization, reorgs, =
double spends, PoW changes, and threats galore=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D=
"auto">P=2ES=2E I don't think I'm being so apocalyptic this time=2E I actua=
lly see all of those things as *necessary* to the UASF movement=2E Otherwis=
e people won't be convinced to take a side=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"aut=
o">Cheers<br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces<br></div>
<div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" >On Mar 1, 2021, at 1:06 PM, Michael Folkson via bitco=
in-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg</a>&gt; wrote:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-=
left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"blue=
">It is approximately 8 months since Steve Lee formally kicked off the<br>T=
aproot activation discussion by setting up the ##taproot-activation<br>IRC =
channel=2E Obviously there was discussion that considerably predates<br>tha=
t but that was the first recognition that there needed to be a<br>focus tow=
ards a solution rather than endless circular debates=2E<br><br>Eight months=
 on it appears there are some who think there is a<br>philosopher=E2=80=99s=
 stone still out there that will garner 100 percent<br>consensus and contai=
n zero chain split risk in the worst case<br>scenario=2E A philosopher=E2=
=80=99s stone that us mere mortals have failed to<br>find in these 8 months=
=2E<br><br>While I would be delighted if this philosopher=E2=80=99s stone i=
s found (and<br>all are free to continue looking) I think it is prudent at =
this point<br>to step away from the circular arguments and build on the pro=
gress we<br>have made in these last 8 months=2E We have effectively achieve=
d<br>overwhelming consensus on the activation mechanism (BIP 8) and all of<=
br>the parameters apart from one (lockinontimeout or LOT)=2E Again I=E2=80=
=99d like<br>to thank the people who have put hours of work into getting to=
 this<br>point=2E It is thankless work and it is probably the last thing an=
y of<br>us want to be doing=2E<br><br>At this point it is unclear whether B=
itcoin Core will be able to<br>release any activation code whatsoever due t=
o disagreement logjams=2E<br>Personally I hope they do but again it is prud=
ent to prepare for the<br>scenario where Core is unable to=2E Hence I and o=
thers have assessed<br>that our energies are better spent working on a comm=
unity release<br>implementing LOT=3Dtrue in a similar spirit to 2017=E2=80=
=99s UASF effort=2E I say<br>similar as this time there really is no need f=
or any antagonism=2E<br>Approximately 90 percent of mining pools (<a href=
=3D"http://taprootactivation=2Ecom">taprootactivation=2Ecom</a>) have<br>de=
clared support and there is overwhelming community consensus to<br>activate=
 Taproot=2E In the absence of a Core release with activation<br>code I hope=
 and expect all users (including miners) to consider<br>supporting this UAS=
F release and consider running it to activate<br>Taproot=2E<br><br>TL;DR To=
morrow (Tuesday) we are holding a kick off meeting for this<br>UASF (LOT=3D=
true) effort on the ##uasf IRC channel at 19:00 UTC=2E Please<br>consider a=
ttending and supporting this effort to get Taproot<br>activated=2E It would=
 be great to get users from the 2017 effort<br>involved in addition to rece=
nt Taproot proponents from all parts of<br>our community=2E The future of B=
itcoin=E2=80=99s scalability and privacy depends<br>on, as it always has, o=
n you the user=2E<br></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>
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