Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
	designates 209.85.216.53 as permitted sender)
	client-ip=209.85.216.53; envelope-from=jameson.lopp@gmail.com;
	helo=mail-qa0-f53.google.com; 
Message-ID: <53612F4E.80708@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 13:13:50 -0400
From: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
	rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
References: <5359E509.4080907@gmail.com>	<CANEZrP0bKe-=T5ps0myLZjo60tv2mkm3Bw0o4e-9y7zb1h5eDg@mail.gmail.com>	<535A60FE.10209@gmail.com>	<CANEZrP0y45eSVgbzXYmvYy1WEQNyd=tmC2EpZgGSB28poXSzDw@mail.gmail.com>	<535BA357.6050607@gmail.com>	<CANOOu=_T82zuV79DWZFGK0Nomhp-Y4tqOhw6ZHhCLb2uGtdR5w@mail.gmail.com>	<535CFDB4.1000200@gmail.com>	<20140428214102.GA8347@netbook.cypherspace.org>	<CANEZrP0E=i6gyJwvLZRTeKvqaVrxR69=UzJWsAqaK2=QSdtn_A@mail.gmail.com>	<5360F3D6.4040002@gmail.com>
	<20140430170638.GE3180@nl.grid.coop>
In-Reply-To: <20140430170638.GE3180@nl.grid.coop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage
 Finney attacks
Precedence: list

Perhaps I missed it somewhere, but I don't recall it ever being a goal of Bitcoin to act as a stable long-term store of value.

- Jameson

On 04/30/2014 01:06 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:00:06PM +1000, Gareth Williams wrote:
>> On 30/04/14 00:13, Mike Hearn wrote:
>>> I do think we need to move beyond this idea of Bitcoin being some kind
>>> of elegant embodiment of natural mathematical law. It just ain't so. 
>>
>> I haven't seen anybody arguing that it is.
>>
>> Bitcoin is the elegant embodiment of /artificially contrived/
>> mathematical rules, which just so happen to be very useful in their
>> current configuration :-P
>>
>> Nobody is saying those rules are immutable. Just that it isn't sensible
>> to undermine them by introducing imprecise and unpredictable elements
>> like human politics.
> 
> As an end-user of Bitcoin, the whole possible value of a set of mathematical
> rules has become completely trashed by the imprecise and unpredictable behavior
> of buyers and sellers.
> 
> If the rules are not responsive to real human needs, bitcoin is worthless
> as a long-term store of value because **my idea of value** changes over time.
> This implies, in my mind, an absolutely requirement to attempt to gather 
> some useful signal from the human political noise.
> 
> How do you determine what that signal is, so you can **change the rules**
> and the mathematics so it makes more sense?
> 
> You've got to deal with politics, one way or another.
> 
>