Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UoFAb-0003Ak-KI for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:47:09 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-we0-f175.google.com ([74.125.82.175]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1UoFAZ-0007hK-Nd for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:47:09 +0000 Received: by mail-we0-f175.google.com with SMTP id t59so1656835wes.6 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=MFjyIkGYwix705GVMj96bJ1iirCBcqKfd4a2iv+aW0s=; b=hyQXVNMY7XLFl8+PV95GpD0323fXS1BhNP2LOHxpE3BRbPqb7jjw+KkMhTg/Ebr1Sb r6jFIdKh2vwo4FRR76Ln1AUzUGghiAwT3t1JDPpDWSpTdrh4wdQj3siSXHrqmWjvaWhy 5e7OKzxsqWi7iFOuWNTSBGbLB1HrigU5RCHGDfrPAxU8JrB4j2rFPj9+n4JkqAjmSS9S s+mpv44Hs98jP0M1V378+bx+7otGXCqYJwbLOzqcmE/iUNuZUCnbwrvfuywU7Cr8hxx9 eBcaZSSx7cCz7qIeUssEhg+wY/OAoQLQU1PFeOPubvG9Y/Ut3rOFjAZz8UdwpWyHSQ9x YnEg== X-Received: by 10.194.1.226 with SMTP id 2mr5951355wjp.91.1371397621490; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.1.137 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 08:46:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [46.246.35.235] In-Reply-To: References: <20130519132359.GA12366@netbook.cypherspace.org> From: Dennison Bertram Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:46:41 +0200 Message-ID: To: Melvin Carvalho Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a82d413391304df476422 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkKnOrAn1y2+BP5CU+OZgk9kQZHFAWzwLRRx4VoRT+nAxjtYl2lyQi9zijYUucMiMdfaOjC X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1UoFAZ-0007hK-Nd Cc: Bitcoin-Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] is there a way to do bitcoin-staging? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:47:09 -0000 --047d7b3a82d413391304df476422 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Is there a relatively easy way to switch between Testnet versions in the client? On the forums I am in discussion with one member who mentioned the idea of a Main net, a testnet and a "beta-net" where the coins on the beta-net would be allowed to have value. It seems like simple and logical way to do this would be something like a "testnet=1, testnetversion=3" in the bitcoin.conf file. Is this possible? On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Dennison Bertram < dennison@dennisonbertram.com> wrote: > Why use ripple and not just use the testnet? > > The advantageous of allowing testnet to be used as an alt-coin are > That Non standard transactions can be tested in a pseudo live environment > where because the coins have some nominal value people are incentivized to > try and steal and come up with clever ways of gamin the system. This sort > of knowledge would be invaluable if non standard transactions are ever > going to become a reality on main net. > > It also allows developers a chance to develop in advance new technologies > and services that currently won't run on bitcoin main net but might be > enabled in the future at which point they can switch over to main net. > Additionally without any development happening with non standard > transactions as currently there is no economic incentive , there might be a > strong argument to never bother enabling non standard transactions as the > risk of doing so might not justify in many people's minds the benefits as > if no one develops anything in advance most users might not find the > theoretical possibilities worth the risk, thus permanently hobbling the > full potential of satoshis idea. Rather if testnet were allowed to act as > an alt coin something cool might be developed that the main net users might > desire enough to overcome the inertia of the status quo. > > Additionally it should be considered that the time in the future when non > standard transactions might be enabled might be so far in the future when > bitcoin has hit mass adoption and changing anything might require far more > political negotiations between users and devs then currently. Meaning that > perhaps much more proof of functionality and value as well as testing might > e required. > > Dennison > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho > wrote: > > > > > On 19 May 2013 15:23, Adam Back wrote: > >> Is there a way to experiment with new features - eg committed coins - that >> doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt >> impose >> a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk? >> >> eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it >> bitcoin-staging? where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the >> mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but no >> native mining. and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin to >> move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1 >> cryptographically, no exchange). >> >> Did anyone figure anything like that out? Seems vaguely doable and >> maybe productive. The only people with coins at risk of defects in a new >> feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coins >> on bitcoin-staging. >> >> Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. I mean a real live system, >> with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking >> bitcoins >> parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. In this way something >> potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to the >> main bitcoin network. eg particularly defenses against >> >> It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because >> some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest >> without more real activity. >> >> Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them >> after >> extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early >> adopters). >> > > Interesting idea. I wonder if ripple could be used to set up a transfer > system between the 'main' and 'staging' systems ... > > >> >> Adam >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete >> security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and >> efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls >> from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: > > Build for Windows Store. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > -- Dennison Bertram, photographer and film maker www.dennisonbertram.com dennison@dennisonbertram.com Milan: +39 320 781 0128 --047d7b3a82d413391304df476422 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is there a=A0relatively=A0easy way to switch between Testn= et versions in the client? On the forums I am in discussion with one member= who mentioned the idea of a Main net, a testnet and a "beta-net"= where the coins on the beta-net would be allowed to have value. It seems l= ike simple and logical way to do this would be something like a "testn= et=3D1, testnetversion=3D3" in the bitcoin.conf file. Is this possible= ?=A0


On Sat, Jun 1= 5, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Dennison Bertram <dennison@dennisonbertram.= com> wrote:
Why use ripple and no= t just use the testnet?=A0

The advantageous of all= owing testnet to be used as an alt-coin are That=A0Non standard transaction= s can be tested in a pseudo live environment where because the coins have s= ome nominal value people are incentivized to try and steal and come up with= clever ways of gamin the system. This sort of knowledge would be invaluabl= e if non standard transactions are ever going to become a reality on main n= et.=A0

It also allows developers a chance to develop in advanc= e new technologies and services that currently won't run on bitcoin mai= n net but might be enabled in the future at which point they can switch ove= r to main net. Additionally without any development happening with non stan= dard transactions as currently there is no economic incentive , there might= be a strong argument to never bother enabling non standard transactions as= the risk of doing so might not justify in many people's minds =A0the b= enefits as if no one develops anything in advance =A0most users might not f= ind the theoretical possibilities worth the risk, thus permanently hobbling= the full potential of satoshis idea. Rather if testnet were allowed to act= as an alt coin something cool might be developed that the main net users m= ight desire enough to overcome the inertia of the status quo.=A0

Additionally it should be considered that the time in t= he future when non standard transactions might be enabled =A0might be so fa= r in the future when bitcoin has hit mass adoption and changing anything mi= ght require far more political negotiations between users and devs then cur= rently. Meaning that perhaps much more proof of functionality and value as = well as testing might e required.=A0

Dennison

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho <<= a href=3D"mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">melvincarvalho= @gmail.com> wrote:




On 19 May 2013 15:23, Adam= Back <adam@cypherspace.org> wrote:
Is there a way to experiment with new featur= es - eg committed coins - that
doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt impose=
a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk?<= br>
eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it
bitcoin-staging? =A0where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but no<= br> native mining. =A0and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin to=
move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1
cryptographically, no exchange).

Did anyone figure anything like that out? =A0Seems vaguely doable and
maybe productive. =A0The only people with coins at risk of defects in a new=
feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coins<= br> on bitcoin-staging.

Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. =A0I mean a real live system,=
with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking bitcoin= s
parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. =A0In this way something potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to the<= br> main bitcoin network. =A0eg particularly defenses against

It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest
without more real activity.

Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them afte= r
extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early
adopters).

Interesting idea.=A0 I wonde= r if ripple could be used to set up a transfer system between the 'main= ' and 'staging' systems ...
=A0

Adam

---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete
security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial.
http://p.s= f.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment

=
----------------------------------------------------------------= --------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:

Build for Windows Store.

= htt= p://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
_______________________________________________

Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bit= coin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitc= oin-development



--

Dennison Bertram, photographer and film maker

www.denniso= nbertram.com

dennis= on@dennisonbertram.com

Milan:=A0+39 320 781 0128


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