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From: Dennison Bertram <dennison@dennisonbertram.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:46:41 +0200
Message-ID: <CANTZ12OEzOgK2Q7uO4KP94ojChSSpVL_M+p-+gTfqFDoJGjHJQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a82d413391304df476422
Cc: Bitcoin-Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] is there a way to do bitcoin-staging?
Precedence: list

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Is there a relatively easy way to switch between Testnet versions in the
client? On the forums I am in discussion with one member who mentioned the
idea of a Main net, a testnet and a "beta-net" where the coins on the
beta-net would be allowed to have value. It seems like simple and logical
way to do this would be something like a "testnet=1, testnetversion=3" in
the bitcoin.conf file. Is this possible?


On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Dennison Bertram <
dennison@dennisonbertram.com> wrote:

> Why use ripple and not just use the testnet?
>
> The advantageous of allowing testnet to be used as an alt-coin are
> That Non standard transactions can be tested in a pseudo live environment
> where because the coins have some nominal value people are incentivized to
> try and steal and come up with clever ways of gamin the system. This sort
> of knowledge would be invaluable if non standard transactions are ever
> going to become a reality on main net.
>
> It also allows developers a chance to develop in advance new technologies
> and services that currently won't run on bitcoin main net but might be
> enabled in the future at which point they can switch over to main net.
> Additionally without any development happening with non standard
> transactions as currently there is no economic incentive , there might be a
> strong argument to never bother enabling non standard transactions as the
> risk of doing so might not justify in many people's minds  the benefits as
> if no one develops anything in advance  most users might not find the
> theoretical possibilities worth the risk, thus permanently hobbling the
> full potential of satoshis idea. Rather if testnet were allowed to act as
> an alt coin something cool might be developed that the main net users might
> desire enough to overcome the inertia of the status quo.
>
> Additionally it should be considered that the time in the future when non
> standard transactions might be enabled  might be so far in the future when
> bitcoin has hit mass adoption and changing anything might require far more
> political negotiations between users and devs then currently. Meaning that
> perhaps much more proof of functionality and value as well as testing might
> e required.
>
> Dennison
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On 19 May 2013 15:23, Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to experiment with new features - eg committed coins - that
>> doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt
>> impose
>> a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk?
>>
>> eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it
>> bitcoin-staging?  where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the
>> mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but no
>> native mining.  and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin to
>> move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1
>> cryptographically, no exchange).
>>
>> Did anyone figure anything like that out?  Seems vaguely doable and
>> maybe productive.  The only people with coins at risk of defects in a new
>> feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coins
>> on bitcoin-staging.
>>
>> Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it.  I mean a real live system,
>> with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking
>> bitcoins
>> parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution.  In this way something
>> potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to the
>> main bitcoin network.  eg particularly defenses against
>>
>> It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because
>> some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest
>> without more real activity.
>>
>> Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them
>> after
>> extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early
>> adopters).
>>
>
> Interesting idea.  I wonder if ripple could be used to set up a transfer
> system between the 'main' and 'staging' systems ...
>
>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete
>> security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and
>> efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls
>> from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
>


-- 

Dennison Bertram, photographer and film maker

www.dennisonbertram.com

dennison@dennisonbertram.com

Milan: +39 320 781 0128

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Is there a=A0relatively=A0easy way to switch between Testn=
et versions in the client? On the forums I am in discussion with one member=
 who mentioned the idea of a Main net, a testnet and a &quot;beta-net&quot;=
 where the coins on the beta-net would be allowed to have value. It seems l=
ike simple and logical way to do this would be something like a &quot;testn=
et=3D1, testnetversion=3D3&quot; in the bitcoin.conf file. Is this possible=
?=A0</div>

<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 1=
5, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Dennison Bertram <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:dennison@dennisonbertram.com" target=3D"_blank">dennison@dennisonbertram.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Why use ripple and no=
t just use the testnet?=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The advantageous of all=
owing testnet to be used as an alt-coin are That=A0Non standard transaction=
s can be tested in a pseudo live environment where because the coins have s=
ome nominal value people are incentivized to try and steal and come up with=
 clever ways of gamin the system. This sort of knowledge would be invaluabl=
e if non standard transactions are ever going to become a reality on main n=
et.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>It also allows developers a chance to develop in advanc=
e new technologies and services that currently won&#39;t run on bitcoin mai=
n net but might be enabled in the future at which point they can switch ove=
r to main net. Additionally without any development happening with non stan=
dard transactions as currently there is no economic incentive , there might=
 be a strong argument to never bother enabling non standard transactions as=
 the risk of doing so might not justify in many people&#39;s minds =A0the b=
enefits as if no one develops anything in advance =A0most users might not f=
ind the theoretical possibilities worth the risk, thus permanently hobbling=
 the full potential of satoshis idea. Rather if testnet were allowed to act=
 as an alt coin something cool might be developed that the main net users m=
ight desire enough to overcome the inertia of the status quo.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Additionally it should be considered that the time in t=
he future when non standard transactions might be enabled =A0might be so fa=
r in the future when bitcoin has hit mass adoption and changing anything mi=
ght require far more political negotiations between users and devs then cur=
rently. Meaning that perhaps much more proof of functionality and value as =
well as testing might e required.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Dennison</div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><d=
iv class=3D"h5"><div><br>On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">melvincarvalho=
@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 19 May 2013 15:23, Adam=
 Back <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@cypherspace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">adam@cypherspace.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Is there a way to experiment with new featur=
es - eg committed coins - that<br>
doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt impose=
<br>
a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk?<=
br>
<br>
eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it<br>
bitcoin-staging? =A0where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the<b=
r>
mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but no<=
br>
native mining. =A0and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin to=
<br>
move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1<br>
cryptographically, no exchange).<br>
<br>
Did anyone figure anything like that out? =A0Seems vaguely doable and<br>
maybe productive. =A0The only people with coins at risk of defects in a new=
<br>
feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coins<=
br>
on bitcoin-staging.<br>
<br>
Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. =A0I mean a real live system,=
<br>
with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking bitcoin=
s<br>
parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. =A0In this way something<br=
>
potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to the<=
br>
main bitcoin network. =A0eg particularly defenses against<br>
<br>
It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because<b=
r>
some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest<br>
without more real activity.<br>
<br>
Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them afte=
r<br>
extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early<br>
adopters).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Interesting idea.=A0 I wonde=
r if ripple could be used to set up a transfer system between the &#39;main=
&#39; and &#39;staging&#39; systems ...<br></div><div>=A0</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">



<br>
Adam<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete<br>
security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and<br=
>
efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls<br=
>
from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial.<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.s=
f.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div><span>----------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------</span><br><span>This <a href=3D"http://SF.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">SF.net</a> email is sponsored by Windows:</span><br>

<span></span><br><span>Build for Windows Store.</span><br><span></span><br>=
<span><a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev</a></span></div></blockquote></div><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite">

<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><div class=
=3D"im"><br><span>Bitcoin-development mailing list</span><br><span><a href=
=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_blank">Bit=
coin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a></span><br>

<span><a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-devel=
opment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitc=
oin-development</a></span><br></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote>
</div>
<br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>







<p>Dennison Bertram, photographer and film maker</p>
<p><a href=3D"http://www.dennisonbertram.com" target=3D"_blank">www.denniso=
nbertram.com</a></p>
<p><a href=3D"mailto:dennison@dennisonbertram.com" target=3D"_blank">dennis=
on@dennisonbertram.com</a></p>
<p>Milan:=A0+39 320 781 0128</p><br>
</div>

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