Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 17:42:42 +0100 (CET)
From: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>
To: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>
Message-ID: <MrhJf_p--3-2@tutanota.de>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Bitcoin Advent Calendar] Derivatives and Options
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Hi Jeremy,

> Wheres the info come from? Well, multiple places. We could get it from a =
third party (maybe using anattestation chain of some sort?), or there are c=
ertain ways it could beself-referential (like for powswap <https://powswap.=
com>).

> Now let=E2=80=99s define a threshold oracle =E2=80=93 we wouldn=E2=80=99t=
 want to trust just onelousy oracle, so let=E2=80=99s trust M out of N of t=
hem!

Similar approach is used in discreet log contracts for multi oracles. There=
 is even a project for P2P derivatives but it was not used for any real tra=
des on mainnet or further developed. What difference would OP_CTV make in t=
his project if its implemented in Bitcoin?
https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-client

https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-server

https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-oracle

> Does this NEED CTV?
No, not in particular. Most of this stuff could be done with online signer =
server federation between you and counterparty. CTV makes some stuff nicer =
though, and opens up new possibilities for opening these contracts unilater=
ally.

Nicer? How would unilateral derivatives work because my understanding was t=
hat you always need a peer to take the other side of the trade. I wish we c=
ould discuss this topic in a trading community with some Bitcoiners that ev=
en had some programming knowledge.

Derivatives are interesting and less explored or used in Bitcoin projects. =
They could be useful in solving lot of problems.


--=20
Prayank

A3B1 E430 2298 178F

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<div>Hi Jeremy,<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt;=
 Wheres the info come from? Well, multiple places. We could get it from a t=
hird party (maybe using an
attestation chain of some sort?), or there are certain ways it could be
self-referential (like for <a href=3D"https://powswap.com" rel=3D"noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">powswap</a>).<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; Now let=E2=80=99s define a threshold oracle =
=E2=80=93 we wouldn=E2=80=99t want to trust just one
lousy oracle, so let=E2=80=99s trust M out of N of them!<br><br>Similar app=
roach is used in discreet log contracts for multi oracles. There is even a =
project for P2P derivatives but it was not used for any real trades on main=
net or further developed. What difference would OP_CTV make in this project=
 if its implemented in Bitcoin?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-client<br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">https://github.com/p2pderivat=
ives/p2pderivatives-server<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-oracle<br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; Does this NEED CTV?<br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">No, not in particular. Most of this stuff could be done=
 with online signer server federation between you and counterparty. CTV mak=
es some stuff nicer though, and opens up new possibilities for opening thes=
e contracts unilaterally.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">Nicer? How would unilateral derivatives work because my understanding=
 was that you always need a peer to take the other side of the trade. I wis=
h we could discuss this topic in a trading community with some Bitcoiners t=
hat even had some programming knowledge.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">Derivatives are interesting and less explored or used =
in Bitcoin projects. They could be useful in solving lot of problems.<br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><br></div><div>-- <br></div><div>Praya=
nk<br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">A3B1 E430 2298 178F<br></div> =
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