Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98AFE407 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:53:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pd0-f180.google.com (mail-pd0-f180.google.com [209.85.192.180]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 487CC16E for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:53:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pdjr16 with SMTP id r16so30743756pdj.3 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:53:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=AQ8Ho2iKkIiY4wgBF2pEd6jCKk5a8oxQ9yNfzSTv7OM=; b=lyd0J+na7adkaP72zZAvou6kZbZwqfBo0gS7oyqOthVJOMCgj1+12+a+wpLO0hKadN 797OziS3Zfu2lLBhOZa8vktZlBJ/PwqdD0qLgvLlwlXERSqYrhVCnNK4uU7gMOvn/XBM JcEenC3aRBt7hqAmxgw2eeHwFQd65VC5N1pAzs654b2egWBINX8WlBoxbWwHD0edWxlp jg/LctqtNLS5xBCNy6h7aPwHL9iZed/QDh4rzUznbj1ITgRwQIcqbAb5CMd0mzeV1TwW clAc1DfAA9PGx4vZo5KiOn9NQa/XgsrFEsZD1MgWtWuBFqyACjMmyE1tpyIeXl87EUhI Q2xA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlQ4z7VVMlSPYYto73+A2NCeiLBAvzqCco5mRnmV4LSJ/BCFS5nrrxhza3up81zD2TkWHW/ X-Received: by 10.70.64.162 with SMTP id p2mr111785885pds.54.1438289619968; Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.89] (99-8-65-117.lightspeed.davlca.sbcglobal.net. [99.8.65.117]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id cj7sm3763043pdb.33.2015.07.30.13.53.37 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:53:38 -0700 (PDT) To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Tim=c3=b3n?= References: <543015348.4948849.1438178962054.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55B959A2.9020402@sky-ip.org> <55BA2329.1080700@thinlink.com> From: Tom Harding X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <55BA8ED0.4080600@thinlink.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:53:36 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] =?utf-8?q?R=C4=83spuns=3A_Personal_opinion_on_the_f?= =?utf-8?q?ee_market_from_a_worried_local_trader?= X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:53:40 -0000 On 7/30/2015 11:14 AM, Jorge Timón wrote: > The blocksize limit (your "production quota") is necessary for > decentralization, not for having a functioning fee market. > If we can agree that hitting the limit will JUST cause higher fees and > not bitcoin to fail, puppies to die or the sky to turn purple I think > that's a great step forward in this debate. It's interesting how people see things differently. I think your first statement above represents a great step forward in the debate. Unlike Adam Back, you state that a block size limit is not necessary to create a functioning fee market. As to your second statement, unfortunately for immediate harmonious relations, I was merely separating out the elevated fee market concern, not at all saying it is the only or even the biggest concern with limited capacity. Alan Reiner, Ryan X. Charles and others have eloquently explained how restrictive a 1MB limit is, even with "layer 2". What's missing from the decentralization dialog is a quantitative measure of decentralization. Why not slam users with higher fees now, if we accept that they may be necessary someday? For the same reasons you don't ask a child, age 5, to work in a factory.