Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7B0C002D for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 00:38:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919DB42298 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 00:38:39 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 919DB42298 Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=thinlink-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@thinlink-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 header.b=fwggol2M X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yCFg2b6RCugf for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 00:38:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 946844179C Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 946844179C for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 00:38:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id y22so6508899qki.7 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:38:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thinlink-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject:content-language:to :references:from:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a7rZtj2i4VC57qlxVXQ5NH9UzDzLRrc3XOSC0rTJZPo=; b=fwggol2MMuf8vkCK/LYvFURR+IqDRv2Bj/E67Orc5SLZOZdBsqLQczz38mLAaTiV37 8WZG0GFmUYVqz313/dqbZOKtDa7Uv1dUXn1t5gxcYHPeby9U6bWGfbq1ClHIiRcePBBK fd3IvqBFDk25SA2V8FVWLuTsEPmft/O7Q2yR6yCaCQ9vgfDKlR6MOk+b6Sjen2s8szlQ fatWT5Rb3ZTuBQha3tjhHjeGl6QeDUtBMZXYBVEYL1nzK7QOhAYgYs2IRM0beEuiDWGB V2efqvpXm/uBjfa4XcnvYsrk7l+eZ8ev8gZen/giuvROCHUAeBi63xFDOPsd9sz49GZK whTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject :content-language:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=a7rZtj2i4VC57qlxVXQ5NH9UzDzLRrc3XOSC0rTJZPo=; b=QIuW/dv5ehsRKR5xx5iDP+ZwNkwhP7NrHZhNViZl093nRUpsRIkwzVfkMvjukzqXaE zrNus3Z6DSybnjIpja/IHoQunUVnHuEw/qn3LHz9+UYPELSJqUO73/cAANH5RawNA5S6 NQRGIkQMI7uKucfbFCseqEAvLhqvug/KcxRId3Bz7f0ZMGD0+BRXuIpOeUA9SjuwK69s JZyLv0FhI/Pse6DR3b6niuAwYJWv7ZJA7JZstoRHRPWN8iuu1NBgLqq2MxavfDtwtEmY 1o6paKhFRGOYzHyk72kPhSHt/GSSGlsXJAudO/d+6WsImpYol8WmanvsKDeF9s3cAhfy Q67Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+UDLW1HvYdY8RZWc+JSbBcfMxfOCZ1oF1jxzUsitHmO0cH6ak0 PVQ2Ar3YETdOf+GLaxb64DGymjf1+9TD+Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1t+t+22wAj2VMANqTzh+kXKWaHj5AGqkQaRTGrIdBdco2ak7krsaDIiX1td1mkkvI8iqSIIIg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:10a6:b0:6b5:67b1:e66e with SMTP id h6-20020a05620a10a600b006b567b1e66emr790896qkk.356.1657672714228; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPV6:2600:1700:b950:d740:bcc5:acec:d342:ba34? ([2600:1700:b950:d740:bcc5:acec:d342:ba34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 7-20020a370307000000b006b47dc92e15sm9994893qkd.36.2022.07.12.17.38.33 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6617a48d-15b9-699c-42f3-35b32245102e@thinlink.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:38:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.1 Content-Language: en-US To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org References: From: Tom Harding In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:06:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Security problems with relying on transaction fees for security X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 00:38:39 -0000 On 7/11/22 15:26, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Anyway, designing protocols for "price go up forever" hopium is a bad idea. Yet that is the design, and it's a good one.  It is equivalent to relying on bitcoin to steadily grow in utility vs. fiat currencies. If it fails to do that, there's no point anyway.