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Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 18:30:28 +0200
Message-ID: <CAPg+sBiCH12i6-WEx++zTbovn=2FZqKAKxfnGkruU_Ah-y-_4g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille@gmail.com>
To: Thomas Zander <thomas@thomaszander.se>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Fwd: Block size following technological growth
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On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Thomas Zander via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> You make a logical fallacy;
>
> I would agree that nodes are there for people to stop trusting someone that
> they have no trust-relationship with.
>

Yay, trust!


> But your conclusion that low node count is an indication that its hard to
> run
> one discards your own point.  You forget the point that running a node is
> only
> needed if you don't know anyone you can trust to run it for you.  I'm
> pretty
> darn sure that this will have a bigger effect on nodecount than how hard it
> is.
>

I never said it is the only factor that influences node count.

Or, in other words, without a need to run a node you can't judge the
> difficulty of why there aren't more running.
>

If the incentives for running a node don't weight up against the
cost/difficulty using a full node yourself for a majority of people in the
ecosystem, I would argue that there is a problem. As Bitcoin's fundamental
improvement over other systems is the lack of need for trust, I believe
that with increased adoption should also come an increased (in absolute
terms) incentive for people to use a full node. I'm seeing the opposite
trend, and that is worrying IMHO.

-- 
Pieter

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F=
ri, Aug 7, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Thomas Zander via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"=
>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">You make a logical fallacy;<br>
<br>
I would agree that nodes are there for people to stop trusting someone that=
<br>
they have no trust-relationship with.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Y=
ay, trust! <br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
But your conclusion that low node count is an indication that its hard to r=
un<br>
one discards your own point.=C2=A0 You forget the point that running a node=
 is only<br>
needed if you don&#39;t know anyone you can trust to run it for you.=C2=A0 =
I&#39;m pretty<br>
darn sure that this will have a bigger effect on nodecount than how hard it=
<br>
is.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I never said it is the only factor =
that influences node count.<br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Or, in other words, without a need to run a node you can&#39;t judge the<br=
>
difficulty of why there aren&#39;t more running.<br></blockquote><div><br><=
/div><div>If the incentives for running a node don&#39;t weight up against =
the cost/difficulty using a full node yourself for a majority of people in =
the ecosystem, I would argue that there is a problem. As Bitcoin&#39;s fund=
amental improvement over other systems is the lack of need for trust, I bel=
ieve that with increased adoption should also come an increased (in absolut=
e terms) incentive for people to use a full node. I&#39;m seeing the opposi=
te trend, and that is worrying IMHO.<br><br>-- <br></div><div>Pieter<br><br=
></div></div></div></div>

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