Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B692AC0001 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 18:08:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD1783437 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 18:08:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ElYMIYp0omVa for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 18:08:45 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 01:11:27 by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-yb1-xb34.google.com (mail-yb1-xb34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b34]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26B85833A3 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2021 18:08:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-xb34.google.com with SMTP id p193so25536740yba.4 for ; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 10:08:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YiSQC8o9g2XqAOclNEZ6PSdaDaza5qdGihGBQAfoflA=; b=UVeENiDjDbbkWqGDpGLp8N0p80dp9r1SdOWO1z0x0kTlHy1DqKGeMP27f0S+24DRXY Wysm6bKTZRJlydNII0rSTS1ucfrsb1f4piy8+8aNDu2gHprK7YOQ6z11OppquvWxuw2j 0LjabIFfcPoLEGXOwIG3FvpUS1Cpb4dcvhpF+cKnhkdPUm0c2MmVk3BWYsRLjBOkHxxt BDt/ewZWbP2FCr6TJCaROtSYr1o04xGEWDIaydJYosnZdRi8/p4KBYYxEqhvhVgXy90y N776I+FSHtpSKFV/ymyn6zv3nULZTnzYnUmHix5JYKhlqeBGsD26fNPkh4JRdr8AkGEQ Eo7g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=YiSQC8o9g2XqAOclNEZ6PSdaDaza5qdGihGBQAfoflA=; b=PCNvkj9CWTXBmdZnFkkn8cKbU0A5tOwYxqbEp2QcNMsfOjDrbqpK65a80HpK/J/0R9 ONCZ8oKcPSd0eRTnqI5Kh7DebjzRYXkSD0EiU9bKEH3h7EvphXmkEF1vBw/H6iicFbBy ekbYrSuAXXDrd6kCXAk56zhMTrOxjYcEUykyWGdyB+YEX63I44zKWqSstaT5X83MUqzb DVQsVgf7KhYF7dwt66ShMB4LST2RBDY4plJkj1moN30wzTTgqBCX38lW3wxL75Cw4K8I CV77kNl+DYtNeqsQWbKdzIw1ku2vf1bSjbI3JqhGRhAVkCFQKzatS3AIocLnenZx5NNz cnnA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530TM9QtROSuRAPMalsvL5slYbGllhH+8hcstpSGhz5o4vYIvsUs GoeJ5vaQZsfL1ONKhCfh6Kf+JZqfE8WNeUGvsrzdmf0WBfExU1sp X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz9fxI0HVT+1n27Ot/2zD1aP6mIScbZjShnhlLet9AuW5dJtRR3Lv6ZYesFXtiTPgDFLsL2iiP+ocDoom75vxU= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:19a3:: with SMTP id k32mr23145109otk.189.1614789090340; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 08:31:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00f301d71024$8ac14cf0$a043e6d0$@voskuil.org> In-Reply-To: <00f301d71024$8ac14cf0$a043e6d0$@voskuil.org> From: micaroni@gmail.com Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2021 13:30:53 -0300 Message-ID: To: eric@voskuil.org, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001df63805bca462ee" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Mar 2021 20:28:08 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2021 18:08:47 -0000 --0000000000001df63805bca462ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH), a.k.a. "The Australian", This discussion list is serious stuff, please stop making noise. Fungibility is a desirable property, anyway. Thank you! On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:04 PM Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove that it is > honest. > > > > Actually, that=E2=80=99s exactly what it does. A logical/mathematical req= uirement > (necessity) is also called a proof. > > > > e > > > > *From:* bitcoin-dev *On > Behalf Of *LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:06 PM > *To:* M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev ; > Daniel Edgecumbe > *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > > > "Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. > Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information= , > it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this > transaction has occured." > > > > Good Afternoon, > > > > Requiring little argument I concur, privacy allows that you do not have > snoops and researchers following you around looking in your purse as you > transact. For the general public, how much you carry in your purse and > where you get it from is none of their business. However, your employer i= s > required to report to the government a record of pay, or at least maintai= n > that record, and the store where you made a purchase similarly to keep > records so that taxes can be paid. From their perspective, you do not nee= d > to know how much they keep in their drawer. Bitcoin directly allows your > purse to be private and for the transaction ledger to take the scrutiny > anyone should be able to apply to prove the ledger is honest. Maintaining > an argument that consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prov= e > that it is honest. > > > > KING JAMES HRMH > > Great British Empire > > > > Regards, > > The Australian > > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > Wills > > > > et al. > > > > > > Willtech > > www.willtech.com.au > > www.go-overt.com > > and other projects > > > > earn.com/willtech > > linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > > > > > m. 0487135719 > > f. +61261470192 > > > > > > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this > email if misdelivered. > ------------------------------ > > *From:* bitcoin-dev on > behalf of Daniel Edgecumbe via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 March 2021 12:16 PM > *To:* M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev > *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > > > Any "transparency" in the blockchain, beyond that required for a > participant to determine valid ownership, can only reasonably be thought = of > as a bug. > > Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. > Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information= , > it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this > transaction has occured. > > Bitcoin is digital cash. > > Daniel Edgecumbe | esotericnonsense > email@esotericnonsense.com | https://esotericnonsense.com > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2021, at 22:37, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > To be clear, is this a NACK because Taproot reduces =E2=80=9Ctransparen= cy=E2=80=9D > > (increases privacy) on the chain (=E2=80=9Cmaintaining consensus=E2=80= =9D is obviously > > an argument against any protocol change, so that=E2=80=99s a red herrin= g)? > > > > And is it your theory that only an =E2=80=9Chonest=E2=80=9D (statute ab= iding) person > > should have privacy, and not against the state, and/or that mixers are > > sufficient privacy? > > > > Personally, I=E2=80=99m not moved by such an argument. What do you thin= k is the > > value proposition of Bitcoin? > > > > e > > > > > On Mar 1, 2021, at 14:21, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via > bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > > > > =EF=BB=BF > > > Good Afternoon, > > > > > > I am going to take tough terms with much of your reply and do > appreciate a courteous practice. Having previously made public disclosure > of my affiliation with Jambler.io it seems sufficient to disclose my > affiliation through the link in my email signature block. > > > > > > My concern is not increased privacy it is maintaining consensus value= s > and the transparency of the blockchain wherein all transactions are > published in an immutable record and that forbids the redaction of > information by any obfuscation. A separate concern is the availability of= a > privacy suitable for cash should a Bitcoin user desire and especially > without disturbing the existing consensus. > > > > > > The use of a Bitcoin Mixer is to enable standard equivalent privacy. > As you may experience yourself, you do not allow people to follow you > around looking in your purse, suppose you are dealing entirely with cash, > and to see where and how much you fill it up, and where you spend. > Nonetheless, for an honest person, their wallet is available for governme= nt > audit as are their financial affairs. This is consistent with the existin= g > operation of consensus. > > > > > > My full email signature block is a disclosure where I have some > affiliation with the referenced website being that it carries at least so= me > information that I have provided or that in some way I am associated > perhaps only making use of their services. For example, I hardly make a > profit from LinkedIn just my information is there. Also, I have made > previous public disclosure of the affiliation. Bitcoin Mixer 2.0 is a > partner mixer run by Jambler.io wherein I receive a service referral fee > and am not in receipt of any part of the process transaction. The operati= on > block diagram provided by Jambler.io is provided here and attached. > > > > > > > > > [ip.bitcointalk.org.png]-Operation of Jambler.io partner mixer > > > > https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages%2Fschem= e-1.png&t=3D622&c=3DgTi7r1cfh-yynw > > > from this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5267588 > > > > > > > > > The installation script provided by Jambler.io that is the basis of m= y > referral website is also publicly published, > > > https://github.com/jambler-io/bitcoin-mixer > > > > > > The disclosure for the partner program is available from Jambler.io > however and is made prominently on my referral website. While it may seem > lucrative at first I insist all partner profits are reportable on your > personal income. > > > https://jambler.io/become-partner.php > > > > > > I am certainly better than confident that you appreciate the > difference between an open and transparent blockchain and the ability of > the user to not reveal details of the content of their wallet publicly. > > > > > > If further clarification is required may I suggest you pay a token an= d > mix some Bitcoin wherein our discussion may then have some point of > reference. > > > > > > KING JAMES HRMH > > > Great British Empire > > > > > > Regards, > > > The Australian > > > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > > MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > > Wills > > > > > > et al. > > > > > > > > > Willtech > > > www.willtech.com.au > > > www.go-overt.com > > > and other projects > > > > > > earn.com/willtech > > > linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > > > > > > > > m. 0487135719 > > > f. +61261470192 > > > > > > > > > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard thi= s > email if misdelivered. > > > *From:* Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces > > > *Sent:* Monday, 1 March 2021 12:07 AM > > > *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH ; Bitcoin > Protocol Discussion > > > *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > > > > > Hello LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH > > > > > > I find a striking dichotomy between your concern of increased privacy > in bitcoin and your link to a bitcoin mixer in your signature > www.go-overt.com > > > > > > At first your concerns seemed genuine but after seeing your promotion > of a bitcoin mixer I'm thinking your concerns may be more profit motivate= d? > I can't tell since you failed to disclose your relationship with the mixe= r. > > > > > > Could you please clarify your association with the bitcoin mixer and > moving forward could you please always do proper disclosure any time you'= re > publically talking about bitcoin transaction privacy. It's only fair to d= o > so as to not mislead people in an attempt to manipulate at worst and just= a > courteous practice at best. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces > > > On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:36 AM, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via > bitcoin-dev wrote: > > >> Good Evening, > > >> > > >> Thank-you for your advice @JeremyRubin < > https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin> on the basis you advise, "Taproot does > not enable monero-like privacy features", I am prepred to withdraw my NAC= K > notably that the existing feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and > whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identifiable, the PayTo Address, and > the amount all without any obfuscation. > > >> > > >> Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result > of a subset of transactions although the operation of the channel is > observable to the parties. > > >> > > >> The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of > Taproot published in a public media channel may have been speculation or > misinformation nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you se= e > that I have. It is important not to allow things to slip through the > cracks. As you may believe may astute reviewers could make a full > disclosure to this list it is not to be expected. > > >> > > >> KING JAMES HRMH > > >> Great British Empire > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> The Australian > > >> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > >> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > >> MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > >> Wills > > >> > > >> et al. > > >> > > >> > > >> Willtech > > >> www.willtech.com.au > > >> www.go-overt.com > > >> and other projects > > >> > > >> earn.com/willtech > > >> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > >> > > >> > > >> m. 0487135719 > > >> f. +61261470192 > > >> > > >> > > >> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard > this email if misdelivered. > > >> *From:* Jeremy > > >> *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM > > >> *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH ; Bitcoin > Protocol Discussion > > >> *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > >> > > >> I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privac= y > features any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core, > taproot is a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less > expensive, done so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy > dependent on user behavior (but not in the monero-like way you mention). > For example, it makes it possible for lightning channels to look > structurally similar to single key wallets, but it does nothing inherentl= y > to obfuscate the transaction graph as in monero. > > >> > > >> Such "monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may already exist i= n > Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, etc= ) > with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot. > > >> > > >> Do you have a source on your reporting? > > >> > > >> You may wish to rescind your nack. > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> @JeremyRubin < > https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via > bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > >>> Good Afternoon, > > >>> > > >>> It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like > features including the ability to hide transactions. > > >>> > > >>> If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain. > > >>> > > >>> A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full > transaction is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so tha= t > transactions may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would ha= ve > unlimited impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is the reason > India has been reported to have banned cryptocurrencies already. > > >>> > > >>> I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without harming > the established robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core > functionality of Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered. > > >>> > > >>> KING JAMES HRMH > > >>> Great British Empire > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> The Australian > > >>> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > >>> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > >>> MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > >>> Wills > > >>> > > >>> et al. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Willtech > > >>> www.willtech.com.au > > >>> www.go-overt.com > > >>> and other projects > > >>> > > >>> earn.com/willtech > > >>> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> m. 0487135719 > > >>> f. +61261470192 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard > this email if misdelivered. > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list > > >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > >> > > >> bitcoin-dev mailing list > > >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --0000000000001df63805bca462ee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&a= mp; HMRH), a.k.a. "The Aus= tralian",

This discussion list is serious stuff, please stop m= aking noise. Fungibility is a desirable property, anyway.

Thank you= !

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:04 PM Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev <= ;bitcoin-dev@lists= .linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> consensus requires th= e ledger to be honest does not prove that it is honest.

<= /u>=C2=A0

Actually, that=E2=80=99s exactly what it does. A logical/= mathematical requirement (necessity) is also called a proof.<= /span>

=C2=A0

e

= =C2=A0

From: bitcoin-dev = <bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> On Beh= alf Of LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev
Sent: T= uesday, March 2, 2021 7:06 PM
To: M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev <<= a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">b= itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Daniel Edgecumbe <email@esotericnons= ense.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

=C2=A0

"Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop= in North London in cash. Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen t= o share this information, it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any ot= her party that this transaction has occured."

=C2=A0

Good Afternoon,

=C2=A0

Requiring little argument I concur, privacy allows that you do no= t have snoops and researchers following you around looking in your purse as= you transact. For the general public, how much you carry in your purse and= where you get it from is none of their business. However, your employer is= required to report to the government a record of pay, or at least maintain= that record, and the store where you made a purchase similarly to keep rec= ords so that taxes can be paid. From their perspective, you do not need to = know how much they keep in their drawer. Bitcoin directly allows your purse= to be private and for the transaction ledger to take the scrutiny anyone s= hould be able to apply to prove the ledger is honest. Maintaining an argume= nt that consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove that it i= s honest.

=C2=A0

KING JAMES HRMH<= u>

Great British Empire

= =C2=A0

Regards,

The Australian

=

LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&am= p; HMRH)

of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & Brit= ish Empire

MR. Damian A. James Williamson<= u>

Wills

=C2=A0

et al.

<= span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

Willtech

www.willtech.com.au

and other projects

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

m. 0487135719<= /u>

f. +61261470192

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

This email does not cons= titute a general advice. Please disregard this email if misdelivered.

=

From: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on behalf of Daniel Edgecumbe via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2021 12:16 PM<= br>To: M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundati= on.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK =

=C2=A0

Any "transparency" in the bl= ockchain, beyond that required for a participant to determine valid ownersh= ip, can only reasonably be thought of as a bug.

Today I spent approx= imately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. Besides the fact that I = have voluntarily chosen to share this information, it is absolutely no conc= ern of yourself or any other party that this transaction has occured.
Bitcoin is digital cash.

Daniel Edgecumbe | esotericnonsense
email@esoteri= cnonsense.com | https://esotericnonsense.com

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021, at 22:37, = Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> To be clear, is this a NACK bec= ause Taproot reduces =E2=80=9Ctransparency=E2=80=9D
> (increases pri= vacy) on the chain (=E2=80=9Cmaintaining consensus=E2=80=9D is obviously > an argument against any protocol change, so that=E2=80=99s a red her= ring)?
>
> And is it your theory that only an =E2=80=9Chonest= =E2=80=9D (statute abiding) person
> should have privacy, and not ag= ainst the state, and/or that mixers are
> sufficient privacy?
>= ;
> Personally, I=E2=80=99m not moved by such an argument. What do y= ou think is the
> value proposition of Bitcoin?
>
> e>
> > On Mar 1, 2021, at 14:21, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HR= MH via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:=
> >
> > =EF=BB=BF
> > Good Afternoon,
>= >
> > I am going to take tough terms with much of your reply = and do appreciate a courteous practice. Having previously made public discl= osure of my affiliation with Jambler.io it seems sufficient to disclose my = affiliation through the link in my email signature block.
> >
= > > My concern is not increased privacy it is maintaining consensus v= alues and the transparency of the blockchain wherein all transactions are p= ublished in an immutable record and that forbids the redaction of informati= on by any obfuscation. A separate concern is the availability of a privacy = suitable for cash should a Bitcoin user desire and especially without distu= rbing the existing consensus.
> >
> > The use of a Bitco= in Mixer is to enable standard equivalent privacy. As you may experience yo= urself, you do not allow people to follow you around looking in your purse,= suppose you are dealing entirely with cash, and to see where and how much = you fill it up, and where you spend. Nonetheless, for an honest person, the= ir wallet is available for government audit as are their financial affairs.= This is consistent with the existing operation of consensus.
> > =
> > My full email signature block is a disclosure where I have so= me affiliation with the referenced website being that it carries at least s= ome information that I have provided or that in some way I am associated pe= rhaps only making use of their services. For example, I hardly make a profi= t from LinkedIn just my information is there. Also, I have made previous pu= blic disclosure of the affiliation. Bitcoin Mixer 2.0 is a partner mixer ru= n by Jambler.io wherein I receive a service referral fee and am not in rece= ipt of any part of the process transaction. The operation block diagram pro= vided by Jambler.io is provided here and attached.
> > <ip.bitc= ointalk.org.png>
> >
> > [ip.bitcointalk.org.png]-Ope= ration of Jambler.io partner mixer
> > https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u= =3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages%2Fscheme-1.png&t=3D622&c=3DgTi= 7r1cfh-yynw
> > from this thread=C2=A0 https://bitcointal= k.org/index.php?topic=3D5267588
> >
> >
> >= ; The installation script provided by Jambler.io that is the basis of my re= ferral website is also publicly published,
> > https://github.com/j= ambler-io/bitcoin-mixer
> >
> > The disclosure for t= he partner program is available from Jambler.io however and is made promine= ntly on my referral website. While it may seem lucrative at first I insist = all partner profits are reportable on your personal income.
> > https://j= ambler.io/become-partner.php
> >
> > I am certainly = better than confident that you appreciate the difference between an open an= d transparent blockchain and the ability of the user to not reveal details = of the content of their wallet publicly.
> >
> > If furt= her clarification is required may I suggest you pay a token and mix some Bi= tcoin wherein our discussion may then have some point of reference.
>= >
> > KING JAMES HRMH
> > Great British Empire
&g= t; >
> > Regards,
> > The Australian
> > LOR= D HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
> > of Hougun Manor &= Glencoe & British Empire
> > MR. Damian A. James Williamson> > Wills
> >
> > et al.
> >
> &= gt;=C2=A0
> > Willtech
> > www.willtech.com.au
> > www.go-overt.com
> &g= t; and other projects
> >=C2=A0
> > earn.com/willtech
> > linkedin.c= om/in/damianwilliamson
> >
> >
> > m. 0487= 135719
> > f. +61261470192
> >
> >
> >= ; This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this em= ail if misdelivered.
> > *From:* Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces <arielluaces@gmail.com>
> > *Sent:* Monday, 1 March 2021 12:07 AM
> > *To:= * LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>; Bitcoin Protocol Discussi= on <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> > *Subject:= * Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK
> >=C2=A0
> > Hello LO= RD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
> >
> > I find a striking d= ichotomy between your concern of increased privacy in bitcoin and your link= to a bitcoin mixer in your signature www.go-overt.com
> >
> > At first y= our concerns seemed genuine but after seeing your promotion of a bitcoin mi= xer I'm thinking your concerns may be more profit motivated? I can'= t tell since you failed to disclose your relationship with the mixer.
&g= t; >
> > Could you please clarify your association with the bi= tcoin mixer and moving forward could you please always do proper disclosure= any time you're publically talking about bitcoin transaction privacy. = It's only fair to do so as to not mislead people in an attempt to manip= ulate at worst and just a courteous practice at best.
> >
>= > Cheers
> > Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces
> > On Feb 28, 2021= , at 4:36 AM, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-de= v@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >> Good Evening, =
> >>
> >> Thank-you for your advice=C2=A0=C2=A0 @= JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>=C2=A0 on the basis you advise, &= quot;Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy features", I am prepr= ed to withdraw my NACK notably that the existing feeatures of Bitcoin MUST = be maintained, and whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identifiable, the P= ayTo Address, and the amount all without any obfuscation.
> >>=
> >> Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provid= es a result of a subset of transactions although the operation of the chann= el is observable to the parties.
> >>
> >> The re= ports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot published= in a public media channel may have been speculation or misinformation none= theless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you see that I have. It is = important not to allow things to slip through the cracks. As you may believ= e may astute reviewers could make a full disclosure to this list it is not = to be expected.
> >>
> >> KING JAMES HRMH
>= ; >> Great British Empire
> >>
> >> Regards= ,
> >> The Australian
> >> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JA= MES HRMH (& HMRH)
> >> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe &= British Empire
> >> MR. Damian A. James Williamson
> &= gt;> Wills
> >>
> >> et al.
> >> =
> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> Willtech
> >> = www.willtech.com.a= u
> >> www.go-overt.com
> >> and other projects
> >&= gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> earn.com/willtech
> >> linkedin.com/in/damianwill= iamson
> >>
> >>
> >> m. 0487135= 719
> >> f. +61261470192
> >>
> >> <= br>> >> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please di= sregard this email if misdelivered.
> >> *From:* Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu><= br>> >> *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM
> >> = *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>; Bitcoin Protocol Disc= ussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> >> = *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK
> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 > >> I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-lik= e privacy features any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its c= ore, taproot is a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts le= ss expensive, done so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy depen= dent on user behavior (but not in the monero-like way you mention). For exa= mple, it makes it possible for lightning channels to look structurally simi= lar to single key wallets, but it does nothing inherently to obfuscate the = transaction graph as in monero.
> >>
> >> Such &q= uot;monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may already exist in Bi= tcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, etc) wi= th or without Taproot, so the point is further moot.
> >>
= > >> Do you have a source on your reporting?
> >> > >> You may wish to rescind your nack.
> >>
>= ; >>
> >> --
> >> @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/= JeremyRubin>=C2=A0 <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
> >> <= br>> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS= EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundati= on.org> wrote:
> >>> Good Afternoon,
> >&g= t;>
> >>> It has been reported that Taproot will enable = some Monero like features including the ability to hide transactions.
&= gt; >>>
> >>> If that is the case I offer a full N= ACK and let me explain.
> >>>
> >>> A part = of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full transaction is pub= lished on the blockchain. If that were to change so that transactions may b= e obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would have unlimited impetus= to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is the reason India has been repo= rted to have banned cryptocurrencies already.
> >>>
>= ; >>> I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without = harming the established robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core = functionality of Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered.
> >&= gt;>
> >>> KING JAMES HRMH
> >>> Great B= ritish Empire
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
>= >>> The Australian
> >>> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAME= S HRMH (& HMRH)
> >>> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe &am= p; British Empire
> >>> MR. Damian A. James Williamson
= > >>> Wills
> >>>
> >>> et al. =
> >>>
> >>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >>&g= t; Willtech
> >>> www.willtech.com.au
> >>> www.go-overt.com
> >= >> and other projects
> >>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >= >> earn.com/wi= lltech
> >>> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson
> &= gt;>>
> >>>
> >>> m. 0487135719
&= gt; >>> f. +61261470192
> >>>
> >>>= ;
> >>> This email does not constitute a general advice. Pl= ease disregard this email if misdelivered.
> >>> __________= _____________________________________
> >>> bitcoin-dev mai= ling list
> >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org <= br>> >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >>=C2=A0
> >> bi= tcoin-dev mailing list
> >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.o= rg
> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org= /mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> > <ip.bitcointalk.org.png&g= t;
> > _______________________________________________
> >= ; bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.o= rg
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mai= lman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> _____________________________________= __________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linux= foundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.= org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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