Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA6C7E54 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2018 19:37:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from outmail149077.authsmtp.com (outmail149077.authsmtp.com [62.13.149.77]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB669557 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2018 19:37:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-c247.authsmtp.com (mail-c247.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.247]) by punt22.authsmtp.com. (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w08JbIdx033444; Mon, 8 Jan 2018 19:37:18 GMT (envelope-from pete@petertodd.org) Received: from petertodd.org (ec2-52-5-185-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com [52.5.185.120]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w08JbFJs035767 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Jan 2018 19:37:16 GMT (envelope-from pete@petertodd.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by petertodd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B3064008C; Mon, 8 Jan 2018 19:37:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2C603202FC; Mon, 8 Jan 2018 14:37:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 14:37:14 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Pavol Rusnak Message-ID: <20180108193714.GA15359@savin.petertodd.org> References: <20180108124506.GA13858@savin.petertodd.org> <5c229def-760a-69eb-e646-bd3c77482b00@satoshilabs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WIyZ46R2i8wDzkSu" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5c229def-760a-69eb-e646-bd3c77482b00@satoshilabs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Server-Quench: 55884f2b-f4ab-11e7-8106-0015176ca198 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdgoUElQaAgsB Am4bWl1eU1p7WGU7 bghPaBtcak9QXgdq T0pMXVMcUwVge053 fF0eURx1cQIIf3d4 YwhnW3hTWBJ4J1sr Rh8GCGwHMGB9YGEf Vl1YdwJRcQRMLU5E Y1gxNiYHcQ5VPz4z GA41ejw8IwAXEy1J RRoNLFYbS11DBTM3 XR0eVS4vFFcIS20r NR04I0IRVEUcIw0p OlssXF9w X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1038:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 52.5.185.120/25 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Satoshilabs secret shared private key scheme X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2018 19:37:20 -0000 --WIyZ46R2i8wDzkSu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 08, 2018 at 02:00:17PM +0100, Pavol Rusnak wrote: > On 08/01/18 13:45, Peter Todd wrote: > > Can you explain _exactly_ what scenario the "plausible deniability" fea= ture > > refers to? >=20 >=20 > https://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-user/advanced_settings.html#multi-pass= phrase-encryption-hidden-wallets This sounds very dangerous. As Gregory Maxwell pointed out, the key derivat= ion function is weak enough that passphrases could be easily brute forced, at w= hich point the bad guys have cryptographic proof that you tried to lie to them a= nd cover up funds. What model of human memory are you assuming here? What specifically are you assuming is easy to remember, and hard to remember? What psychology research backs up your assumptions? --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --WIyZ46R2i8wDzkSu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJaU8hmAAoJECSBQD2l8JH7swwH/0DaTpaOqIYwcTrb2BxqxqE0 SNdQiPlxJcRuQ54xunYvgh8DDEByOLLTmWorP5WdXDDy8W0rTG3Y0Ohz6pM4LsGv /DSNl2Ye1BDrrt5H1H8QllcNhUFPC3ezVRK5eMwO5uUZJSRbCLgTuoK1dsC+2fmN VMrhXcjBCvoMfyGncHsNBxKU5jWA/u91zDcgDrap6N43R1oUj5h5eaHRkZDhRBVb KAEq8XUjga3IeM4CqS78APwSlfUj77LZI2KCjMBMh5UqLzQLMBychRYUzVG1NJq5 zN0eoprH9Z0C4VP5Jd+oBcDbrCfOK+BewQBJee7th8dOodUNVf64d9nvFHUTfQw= =6Ut/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WIyZ46R2i8wDzkSu--