Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF20C002B for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:56:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEFCB419E5 for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:56:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org CEFCB419E5 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5zdfFNW0EEqO for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:56:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 183AF419D5 Received: from smtpout2.mo529.mail-out.ovh.net (smtpout2.mo529.mail-out.ovh.net [79.137.123.220]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 183AF419D5 for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:56:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mxplan6.mail.ovh.net (unknown [10.109.156.98]) by mo529.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D8AF2145B; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:56:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from peersm.com (37.59.142.102) by DAG6EX2.mxp6.local (172.16.2.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2507.21; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:56:21 +0100 Authentication-Results: garm.ovh; auth=pass (GARM-102R0048b17210c-466e-488d-b363-179b8c9d1b73, DE9DD4CDF305FB004F23F4AAC4F289D572D783DE) smtp.auth=aymeric@peersm.com X-OVh-ClientIp: 92.184.112.196 To: Claus Ehrenberg , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion References: <57f780b1-f262-9394-036c-70084320e9cf@peersm.com> <3d00aacb-585d-f875-784d-34352860d725@peersm.com> <230265ee-c3f8-dff3-9192-f0c8dc4d913c@peersm.com> <76718304-A8E3-46E6-B2F7-DE86831F15DF@petertodd.org> <228e8706-72c7-8d5f-b6fb-c71a2e56efde@peersm.com> From: Aymeric Vitte Message-ID: <7e552bc6-6cbd-56d6-934d-6d4578fd03bd@peersm.com> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:56:19 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8AF628C449F8802B0E7AB38E" X-Originating-IP: [37.59.142.102] X-ClientProxiedBy: DAG7EX2.mxp6.local (172.16.2.62) To DAG6EX2.mxp6.local (172.16.2.52) X-Ovh-Tracer-GUID: 10272e09-84fe-4509-ac9e-a1c26d6d3dc3 X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 6725563097665594266 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrudeiledgudelucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfdpvefjgfevmfevgfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecuhedttdenucenucfjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtghisegrtderredtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpeethihmvghrihgtucggihhtthgvuceorgihmhgvrhhitgesphgvvghrshhmrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeugfeljeetudffgeelvdfhhfekvefhffekudekgeekvedvjeffteevleehtdfhleenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhlihhnuhigfhhouhhnuggrthhiohhnrdhorhhgpdhpvggvrhhsmhdrtghomhdplhhinhhkvgguihhnrdgtohhmnecukfhppeduvdejrddtrddtrddupdefjedrheelrddugedvrddutddvnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepuddvjedrtddrtddruddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeorgihmhgvrhhitgesphgvvghrshhmrdgtohhmqedpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepuddprhgtphhtthhopegsihhttghoihhnqdguvghvsehlihhsthhsrdhlihhnuhigfhhouhhnuggrthhiohhnrdhorhhgpdgruhgsvghrghgvmhgvughirghlvgesghhmrghilhdrtghomhdpoffvtefjohhsthepmhhohedvledpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhht X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:52:28 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE OP_IF OP_PUSH X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:56:28 -0000 --------------8AF628C449F8802B0E7AB38E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Claus, Thanks but I am not sure to understand the solution, how the transaction will look like and will it be standard ? Regards Aymeric Le 16/02/2023 à 20:59, Claus Ehrenberg a écrit : > I propose to require all data to be in the op_return output PLUS add a > required op_return_hash field, which is checked by consensus. So that > node can re-validate the chain without having to store/download/look > at the contents of op_return data. The benefit of that little > redundancy is that "content-sensitive" communities can ignore the date > they don't like. > > Cheers > Claus > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 7:30 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev > > wrote: > > It's super unclear how long it could take for such a change to be > adopted > > Then the answer is simple, see: > https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation > > Outstandingly, very, mega, bad, but working, bringing bitcoin back > 10 years ago > > But why not? If bitcoin folks don't get that we need a 1tx storage > solution for the future, then let's bring back bitcoin into the > past and destroy coins > > Le 12/02/2023 à 17:23, Aymeric Vitte a écrit : >> >> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403 >> >> "What is the process to have someone do the PR for this? Or I do >> it and most likely it will be a very shxtty one since I am not a >> C/C++ expert, then wasting the time of everybody >> >> It's urgently required, I did consider OP_RETURN as a dart in the >> past but changed my mind, it's adapted to the current evolutions, >> not flooding bitcoin with 2 txs while only 1 is needed >> >> If not the best 1 tx solution is super simple: store in >> addresses, and super bad at the end because burning bitcoins, >> while still not expensive if you don't need to store big things" >> >> >> Le 05/02/2023 à 19:12, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev a écrit : >>> >>> >>> On Sat., Feb. 4, 2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00, Russell O'Connor >>> via bitcoin-dev >> > wrote: >>> >Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than bytes in the >>> script pubkey, >>> >there is a crossover point in data size where it will >>> simply be cheaper to >>> >use witness data. Where that crossover point is depends on >>> the finer >>> >details of the overhead of the two methods, but you could >>> make some >>> >reasonable assumptions. Such a calculation could form the >>> basis of a >>> >reasonable OP_RETURN proposal. I don't know if it would be >>> persuasive, but >>> >it would at least be coherent. >>> >>> I don't think it's worth the technical complexity trying to >>> carefully argue a specific limit. Let users decide for >>> themselves how they want to use OpReturn. >>> >>> >>> Even better. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>> >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> >> -- >> Sophia-Antipolis, France >> CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf >> LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26 >> GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms >> A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7 >> A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7 >> Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet >> Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions >> torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live >> node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor >> Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com >> Peersm : http://www.peersm.com > > -- > Sophia-Antipolis, France > CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf > LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26 > GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms > A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7 > A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7 > Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet > Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions > torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live > node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor > Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com > Peersm : http://www.peersm.com > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > -- Sophia-Antipolis, France CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26 GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7 A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7 Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com Peersm : http://www.peersm.com --------------8AF628C449F8802B0E7AB38E Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Claus,

Thanks but I am not sure to understand the solution, how the transaction will look like and will it be standard ?

Regards

Aymeric


Le 16/02/2023 à 20:59, Claus Ehrenberg a écrit :
I propose to require all data to be in the op_return output PLUS add a required op_return_hash field, which is checked by consensus. So that node can re-validate the chain without having to store/download/look at the contents of op_return data. The benefit of that little redundancy is that "content-sensitive" communities can ignore the date they don't like.

Cheers
Claus

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 7:30 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

It's super unclear how long it could take for such a change to be adopted

Then the answer is simple, see: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation

Outstandingly, very, mega, bad, but working, bringing bitcoin back 10 years ago

But why not? If bitcoin folks don't get that we need a 1tx storage solution for the future, then let's bring back bitcoin into the past and destroy coins

Le 12/02/2023 à 17:23, Aymeric Vitte a écrit :

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403

"What is the process to have someone do the PR for this? Or I do it and most likely it will be a very shxtty one since I am not a C/C++ expert, then wasting the time of everybody

It's urgently required, I did consider OP_RETURN as a dart in the past but changed my mind, it's adapted to the current evolutions, not flooding bitcoin with 2 txs while only 1 is needed

If not the best 1 tx solution is super simple: store in addresses, and super bad at the end because burning bitcoins, while still not expensive if you don't need to store big things"


Le 05/02/2023 à 19:12, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev a écrit :


On Sat., Feb. 4, 2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:


On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than bytes in the script pubkey,
>there is a crossover point in data size where it will simply be cheaper to
>use witness data.  Where that crossover point is depends on the finer
>details of the overhead of the two methods, but you could make some
>reasonable assumptions.  Such a calculation could form the basis of a
>reasonable OP_RETURN proposal.  I don't know if it would be persuasive, but
>it would at least be coherent.

I don't think it's worth the technical complexity trying to carefully argue a specific limit. Let users decide for themselves how they want to use OpReturn.

Even better.


_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com

-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

-- 
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
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