Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A711BE4 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:11:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-lf0-f48.google.com (mail-lf0-f48.google.com [209.85.215.48]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E2DD189 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:11:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf0-f48.google.com with SMTP id f20so8518684lfe.3 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:11:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=A2RLgvtemjujb3M6pZdLQLmkpkw9W6zVDA08J777oFI=; b=mHSFhB3moPzwFUsmkiDQSuteZ6DJymZp3fdhD6eX/q6ccHY18VFO3Mfo78tevkR3++ ytTAbeKNfx4sdxt8DCf4u62CN7pnEuRDaxLzcudhyi+dZ39SrdWwofi53Np4XmKVSsOT sG9ECRKd9jqnbD7mmdzKEmfY9YcZ58eMSHSlmgnBfITreNJQEZL6f0OcHx3LWlu/f9cU UC9cj3lKVpgpu1SPkE3fiPwq/M9r5//1F6vSzsrrB5xDuUOUBEHNFURyD5gqoJJ7mzMt 00YndlRarmH47DVEMVhJ/k9Vh+TkRqMAYEX+tH2mk3HfT1YKaItOedMtbrTCc2G35axn g/TA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=A2RLgvtemjujb3M6pZdLQLmkpkw9W6zVDA08J777oFI=; b=Y43V12kgQsBM4LqG+4LcnSQ44TvvIERSX3biqQxw0bZ1JkOmn1R1M6c9MBNias2SvU vtN8WDRE1Rz+ZRZTxL68X4Ecur1ml7FquMnoYgNGdFlTDhzKbjaquRq+9fzOsX+N+cKI /h7zO7Cm5MZhGs4fJ4lWgvYRtsu5gmYFIwULPtGROzQkiFl/TmbY8sze1u25EEYG0/MY AGdQ72CsWDk4Kyt8/Fg8Odq+yfKH3anM/q6G+wHTGPHT/T2Y8jIQ8ufhhvbkG3W3jI8z g7eB5O/a9+5jZDk+VE5/QsedlA7+lxq5xXnzPUDssVU1ZQly8canMt0fCA2u7/lkFmSc jKGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLWjXoVxtUm11b2BkEF/3cnUKa8FLvxQT6rANfEr6Smb1/PAOAM Xq4Wj9UlMysQKRWD34tnr4EYRrWGR85npqx7XM8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBospz1MJ/eemFlWwMJJmZqkQSg0hFKq4NKCQU+M5AH5jlx4bQ8g5jBgmNMzzQFm4oOGhU86SZs2kssR9o2IKkTE= X-Received: by 10.46.83.9 with SMTP id h9mr4839605ljb.68.1513293108501; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:11:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: clarkmoody@gmail.com Received: by 10.46.17.74 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:11:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20171213213607.ijlvqwpdaokucgi6@fedora-23-dvm> From: Clark Moody Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:11:17 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Rxw5ZBpq3lkm5nHbbDPUs8J-ci0 Message-ID: To: Natanael , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4030436096e2c63530560550228" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, LOTS_OF_MONEY, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:19:39 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Utilization of bits denomination X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:11:51 -0000 --f4030436096e2c63530560550228 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" An alternative to "training" users to understand SI prefixes could be to make 100 satoshi = 1 mu, spelling out the Greek letter. Although the Units page on the wiki has been brought up to argue against naming 10,000 satoshi = 1 finney, I would like to support this designation. It seems to be gaining some popular support on Twitter & podcasts. So at $10,000 BTC/USD, 1 finney = $1.00. The smallest unit of value would be 0.0001 finney = 1 satoshi. Finney has a natural abbreviation as fin, and 100 mu = 1 finney. The Units page also refers to "bitcent" as 0.01 BTC, but if a "bit" is 100 satoshi, then what is a "bitcent" in that context? /bikeshed @Natanael you're exactly right. There are already multiple uses of "bits" within bitcoin itself. @Sjors I don't think a redefinition of 'satoshi' is going to happen ;-) -Clark On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Natanael via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > Reposting /u/BashCo's post on reddit here, for visibility: > > ---8<--------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Before anyone says 'bits' are too confusing because it's a computer > science term, here's a list of homonyms [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki > /List_of_true_homonyms] that you use every day. Homonyms are fine because > our brains are able to interpret language based on context, so it's a > non-argument. > > > This ignores the fact that there exists multiple meanings of bits *within > the same context*, and that beginners likely can't tell them apart. > > Feel free to try it yourself - talk about Bitcoin "bits" of a particular > value with somebody who doesn't understand Bitcoin. Then explain that the > cryptography uses 256 bit keys. I would be surprised if you could find > somebody who would not be confused by that. > > Let's say a website says a song is 24 bits. Was that 24 bit audio > resolution or 24 bit price? Somebody writes about 256 bit keys, are that > their size or value? > > You guys here can probably tell the difference. Can everybody...? Bits > will cause confusion, because plenty of people will not be able to tell > these apart. They will not know WHEN to apply one definition or the other. > > https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin/comments/24m3nb/_/ch8gua7 > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --f4030436096e2c63530560550228 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
An alternative to "trainin= g" users to understand SI prefixes could be to make 100 satoshi =3D 1 = mu, spelling out the Greek letter.

Although the Units page on the wiki has been brought up to argue agains= t naming 10,000 satoshi =3D 1 finney, I would like to support this designat= ion. It seems to be gaining some popular support on Twitter & podcasts.= So at $10,000 BTC/USD, 1 finney =3D $1.00. The smallest unit of value woul= d be 0.0001 finney =3D 1 satoshi. Finney has a natural abbreviation as fin,= and 100 mu =3D 1 finney.

The Units page also refers to "bitcent" a= s 0.01 BTC, but if a "bit" is 100 satoshi, then what is a "b= itcent" in that context?

/bikeshed

@Natanael you're exactly right. There are= already multiple uses of "bits" within bitcoin itself.
=

@Sjors I do= n't think a redefinition of 'satoshi' is going to happen ;-)


This = ignores the fact that there exists multiple meanings of bits *within the sa= me context*, and that beginners likely can't tell them apart.=C2=A0

Feel free to try it yoursel= f - talk about Bitcoin "bits" of a particular value with somebody= who=C2=A0 doesn't understand Bitcoin. Then explain that the cryptograp= hy uses 256 bit keys. I would be surprised if you could find somebody who w= ould not be confused by that.=C2=A0

Let's say a website says a song is 24 bits. Was that 24 bit= audio resolution or 24 bit price? Somebody writes about 256 bit keys, are = that their size or value?=C2=A0

You guys here can probably tell the difference. Can everybody...?= Bits will cause confusion, because plenty of people will not be able to te= ll these apart. They will not know WHEN to apply one definition or the othe= r.=C2=A0


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