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From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 16:21:54 -0500
Message-ID: <CAJHLa0NA357Fa2CjBPopKvDs1T0FFOsPjnizsVWPNWX46LfgyA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alan Reiner <etotheipi@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4179b593a1cd050d07ea1e
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP70: why Google Protocol Buffers for
	encoding?
Precedence: list

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Correct.  I should have said "more likely to be deterministic"  Bitcoin
Core does not *rely* on determinism in BIP70; I was referring to recent
upstream efforts to make protobufs usable in a deterministic fashion by
default.

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Alan Reiner <etotheipi@gmail.com> wrote:

>  I'm a bit confused.  It's been a long time since I looked at protobuf
> (and will have to dig into it soon), but I seem to recall it doesn't have
> any of the determinism properties you guys just said.  It is intended to
> allow you to skip details of the on-the-wire representations and just send
> a bunch of named fields between systems.  I thought there was no guarantee
> that two identical protobuf structures will get serialized identically...?
>
>
>
>
>
> On 01/19/2015 02:57 PM, Richard Brady wrote:
>
>   Thanks guys, great answers.
>
>  The design choice certainly makes a lot more sense now regardless of
> whether one agrees with it or not.
>
>  Regards,
> Richard
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA.
> GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in Ashburn.
> Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of bandwidth.
> Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased capacity.Completely compliant.http://p.sf.net/sfu/gigenet
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing listBitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA.
> GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in Ashburn.
> Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of bandwidth.
> Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased capacity.Completely compliant.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/gigenet
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>


-- 
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc.      https://bitpay.com/

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Correct.=C2=A0 I should have said &quot;more likely to be =
deterministic&quot;=C2=A0 Bitcoin Core does not <i>rely</i> on determinism =
in BIP70; I was referring to recent upstream efforts to make protobufs usab=
le in a deterministic fashion by default.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Alan Rei=
ner <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:etotheipi@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">etotheipi@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    I&#39;m a bit confused.=C2=A0 It&#39;s been a long time since I looked =
at
    protobuf (and will have to dig into it soon), but I seem to recall
    it doesn&#39;t have any of the determinism properties you guys just
    said.=C2=A0 It is intended to allow you to skip details of the
    on-the-wire representations and just send a bunch of named fields
    between systems.=C2=A0 I thought there was no guarantee that two
    identical protobuf structures will get serialized identically...?<div><=
div class=3D"h5"><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 01/19/2015 02:57 PM, Richard Brady
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    </div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"h5">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <div class=3D"gmail_extra">
          <div>
            <div>Thanks guys, great answers.=C2=A0</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>The design choice certainly
              makes a lot more sense now regardless of whether one
              agrees with it or not.</div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Regards,</div>
          <div>Richard</div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      </div></div><span class=3D""><pre>-----------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------
New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA.
GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in Ashburn.
Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of bandwidth.
Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased capacity.Completely compliant.
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/gigenet" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/s=
fu/gigenet</a></pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a>
</pre>
    </span></blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA.<br>
GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in Ashburn.<b=
r>
Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of bandwidth.<br>
Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased capacity.Completely compliant.<br=
>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/gigenet" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/s=
fu/gigenet</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature">Jeff Garzik<br>Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelis=
t<br>BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://bitpay.com/" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://bitpay.com/</a></div>
</div>

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