Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF02C002D for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:37:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47388142C for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:37:38 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org A47388142C Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm1 header.b=HKwPu26K X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.603 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.603 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5BJnpS33rBew for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:37:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org B8C9081427 Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8C9081427 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:37:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2585C01EE; Tue, 6 Dec 2022 02:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 06 Dec 2022 02:37:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; t=1670312250; x=1670398650; bh=CGGID6Yd2Xoe9+MzgKmiEyAXdbLY SdjMkirBidg/szc=; b=HKwPu26Kp7HahIGtD4MEfQy1+ukKncWvVTfL2j10LyWo 8I5uqCtnEjZwi56tbTkEeJk/xVDffTryTOAAZRAEA5XFTsPPt+Nb7G7ct2yL8Sre K+OC9xKLAmvEd0yro/NPE17cN7fcJUeNYFy9x8PBntnOfosvhcubhNi76xYckj2u XcF7B2UOHcHe40jbkFt6qIqWzZdCwtE+Oz0GA6UZE5wTZwVWtwzh2WXQ6iocgQyM 3uPjJFA9Zcyy5PTHqJYinCIxwe+g0Y/gQhGdMNBhxDwh23oExPJ/aleQtnxWM7/G P6u91059uTUO/qNBZJDTRIepYlMAc6f4+s/aaAkkLA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrudehgdduudduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgv rhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpedttdegtdffteeukeffhfffkeekiefhteduvdetjeeujeffgeevgefhudetjefh veenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgne cuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepphgvthgv sehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 6 Dec 2022 02:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 698B35F87D; Tue, 6 Dec 2022 02:37:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 02:37:27 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LsJVqLtP1nJnk++0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: Daniel Lipshitz Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Announcement: Full-RBF Miner Bounty X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2022 07:37:39 -0000 --LsJVqLtP1nJnk++0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 06, 2022 at 12:39:40AM -0500, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > 10 or 20 nodes is completely meaningless. Pools run nodes themselves, whi= ch by > default connect to 8 outgoing peers. There's about 5000 IPv4 listening no= des on > the network. When a node learns of a new block, it tells all it's peers t= hat > the new block exists. >=20 > For your censorship to work, there has to be a substantial propability th= at a > miner *only* runs a single node (they don't), that has no incoming peers,= and > all 8 peers of that node happen to be one of your 20 censoring nodes. > Obviously, since the probability of a given peer being a censoring node is > 20/5000, all 8 being censored is extraordinarily unlikely. >=20 > Even if you ran so many nodes that 20% of the entire network was censorin= g, the > probability of all 8 outgoing peers being censors is only 0.2^8 =3D 0.000= 256% >=20 >=20 > This is an example of information being hard to censor and easy to spread= =2E In > fact, for full-rbf this same math works in our favor: for a node to have = a 50% > chance of connecting to at least one full-rbf peer, just 8.3% of the netw= ork > needs to run full-rbf. 5000 IPv4 nodes * 8% =3D 400 nodes. >=20 > The percolation threshold doesn't need to be met for this to be succesful, > because someone to just run a full-rbf node that connects to every single > listening node simultaneously. FYI here's a percolation simulator for full-rbf: https://github.com/mzumsande/fullrbf_simulation It finds similar results to my math above. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --LsJVqLtP1nJnk++0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmOO8TUACgkQLly11TVR Lzcqxw//RHCUSatC0eY1JHAShj8uS4l0CBq8R7K4x11DZ4bB8gOJYdflNc9lLBfP wFlo9SHKz48klqCILyO+RUhSpg6N1/hYaNGVrRKWxt5Tf6y46s0giBg7fMuJA/0I OmInzH217ZI9eiRUrr9iD5mn/WoA9b85hcIvtmh6chn8uPX/Wp0OKzmrX+uPDrRi QjtqTMZSw9UY58dphGieROJID84EfOL09mndZXCYYix+IwZPIOloMf9xXY30dire T2+bm24k6/ekMawIgWYXoyeAProoDW/w6e82V8lFF5Hqrw654oeMzAYr20R4LiCI xsEJZBvWm8s1u1kHtb92r2Wh21yTvjkGt1iV0bDHUq7CnWqGg1rFgL6x32CaZaz7 tNa/XUXorMSbCtzoHwNne7+ZD/YFbPxso+eNxBJNxVeVqaOWPCGf1C9KJM8w4rXb Rd2K9p5vehDXPCXSDsQk4x0jWUa+0bqhDxUYBS62P/HeU8twSaZNylXhNIj73P3X Gkw2CfRUONHRnawNBjwXM6IVa8SxEJ7Uv6YWIygNI2j4Of4RKToeCWMnkS3ygoAV 3p2InMsT8B4PBzTURw4NEqx3B/jaetFyCEEmrPtMShHSMgVSd1iJd32H7huiGklC 2MY3Jowsh/6vWqeXx+qQYYjvrsBswXk0sqsw/ww2hEGpxTJc8MI= =KPe1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LsJVqLtP1nJnk++0--