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From: Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABh=4qPsR1YbhJDeAPjr37Zjqawo9ZFAH43scFnEg7p9a7EkeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 20:29:50 +0200
Message-Id: <F292CC2F-BAA7-45ED-801E-1475D94632AF@bitsofproof.com>
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	<1582E990-4E14-4EF7-9C9C-AA505B815104@bitsofproof.com>
	<53568B87.8040009@monetize.io>
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To: jan.moller@gmail.com
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Presenting a BIP for Shamir's Secret
	Sharing of Bitcoin private keys
Precedence: list


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Yes, it is current norm. I am questioning if we should hang on to it in =
BIPs.

I see testnet as a tool for a certain type of testing. Its existence is =
likely a consequence of Satoshi not writing unit tests and having =
automated integration tests, but creating a shadow chain to try things =
out, mostly manually.

I do not say testnet (as we know) would not be useful for certain tests. =
E.g. as we developed myTREZOR with slush it was useful to have a shared =
chain with worthless tokens and transactions we can both refer to. =
However for our automated tests chains-in-a-box are better as we can =
easily create and exactly re-create wierd situations on-the-fly.

While talking about BIP32 hierarchy use, several people argued to use a =
level of the hierarchy to identify the chain the key is used on. That =
level could identify testnet but as well an alt coin chain.

Above leads me thinking that testnet is far less important than to be =
addressed in every future BIP.

Regards,

Tamas Blummer
http://bitsofproof.com

On 22.04.2014, at 19:07, Jan M=F8ller <jan.moller@gmail.com> wrote:

> Treating testnet differently is quite the norm, we have that in BIP =
32, 38, 70, SIPA private keys (no BIP for that I guess), bitcoin =
addresses etc. At the same time none of them define values for alt coins =
as far as I recall.
>=20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Diso-8859-1"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Yes, =
it is current norm. I am questioning if we should hang on to it in =
BIPs.<div><br></div><div>I see testnet as a tool for a certain type of =
testing. Its existence is likely a consequence of Satoshi not writing =
unit tests and having automated integration tests, but creating a shadow =
chain to try things out, mostly manually.</div><div><br></div><div>I do =
not say testnet (as we know) would not be useful for certain tests. E.g. =
as we developed myTREZOR with slush it was useful to have a shared chain =
with worthless tokens and transactions we can both refer to. However for =
our automated tests chains-in-a-box are better as we can easily create =
and exactly re-create wierd situations =
on-the-fly.</div><div><br></div><div>While talking about BIP32 hierarchy =
use, several people argued to use a level of the hierarchy to identify =
the chain the key is used on. That level could identify testnet but as =
well an alt coin chain.</div><div><br></div><div>Above leads me thinking =
that testnet is far less important than to be addressed in every future =
BIP.</div><div><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"><br style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; float: none; display: inline !important;">Regards,</span><br =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;"><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !important;">Tamas =
Blummer</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; float: none; display: inline !important;"><a =
href=3D"http://bitsofproof.com">http://bitsofproof.com</a></span>
</span></div>
<br><div><div>On 22.04.2014, at 19:07, Jan M=F8ller &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jan.moller@gmail.com">jan.moller@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Treating testnet differently is quite the =
norm, we have that in BIP 32, 38, 70, SIPA private keys (no BIP for that =
I guess), bitcoin addresses etc. At the same time none of them define =
values for alt coins as far as I recall.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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