Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32E4C002D for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 07:45:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8091E4049F for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 07:45:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 8091E4049F Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bitrefill.com header.i=@bitrefill.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=b header.b=BxTbG/DH X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W7o0zcHe4gPE for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 07:45:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 0DA344025D Received: from mail-ua1-x932.google.com (mail-ua1-x932.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::932]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DA344025D for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 07:45:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ua1-x932.google.com with SMTP id t26so4445383uaj.9 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 00:45:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bitrefill.com; s=b; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=q3NFBqOIgy98iqgwWvmwaiy8yziDie9Z9AgPb33XdyU=; b=BxTbG/DH2XLBeM9AYSk4FWEIccsia0JE+s8jNCwF8UfivnUrNnXmlF9xf/rUrA29kR XkuYj8f3wcyNoTD2d/inoBSg64hgBcPeT0A1Zog5i/f/ypiaXubHK8JG1eAbjIQLkAlC uaqjN0DbKlg5N0eV3+qhJg1Dryq/EYR3srXOHn//I7KbK1J/Pqb4+FZLN8xttIgm35VS N5Bs27RSSEr/2WCKoi9AFRWMPzMg7BSVtsrAB4G+CP7EOpl2XBPg3cvYys65z8lW4mFC MU5/rHnodLFLXoNSWpQtlxdF8NtmAxWUjlXQ78apAX88ERaijzqb2WpE6xtkEgQs0QNc xGyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=q3NFBqOIgy98iqgwWvmwaiy8yziDie9Z9AgPb33XdyU=; b=pT7NqOVHaDxSVTOv8OkNTsKPwqmwJAUCLqlT52fRI/DV+qcy2tSWFp9h+0VxJWYy8z sviz+HahFF8BDl3zmouyPn2Vs1J8/9Q02RQxgtosbLrpx/IabxntuaxEnNBPVK6NMU0s lU0kHE8Zr8qszAklEjDxPHmqRty94g99NoKTILqRTzrmBsCFNrVTNoLzZWIxQrbMKhw+ lRbZOmcS1z3C9KUA9j5UUj0W2pOc+77Hvf3AWXKI9J9qX26h9poIwK8/YYIYkzIP4rxO n349lmMVOpnryt8oUuxSi01mIztfo3fHMx+EZ5Lwqr0b9aek3kI6BJxZ+WqYg2tZavnl 1DCA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf0lEIOUP154QWa4C5l9w54XqApmk+e0Im5za9bWmUufCUjhqxjb 9Bl0V+gDDG8uZU7RfgVPKgssbx7lG34hd/nEUhM4OPquTgA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM6SFDf90BuzdXFZ8rip0SOUEXgH6Vnt4yqeC5i0zKm3oD9bnrIaOs9ar3wZXdrwQ4PF+I02cTq4iSbh/x5HSAg= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:76d1:0:b0:407:702d:7b67 with SMTP id w17-20020ab076d1000000b00407702d7b67mr3585281uaq.6.1666597525733; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 00:45:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Sergej Kotliar Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:45:13 +0200 Message-ID: To: Peter Todd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000815a2005ebc2f985" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 08:26:46 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , Anthony Towns Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 07:45:29 -0000 --000000000000815a2005ebc2f985 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" There are many countermeasures that can be done, we've only implemented a subset of them as more haven't been needed. Mainly we wait some time to make sure any conflicting transaction has time to propagate on the network. We have well connected nodes with basic redundancy. When they are available we sometimes use external block explorers for certain nice-to-have enhancements, but it's absolutely not required for zeroconf as they are frequently down. I can of course only speak to our custom-built setup, presumably everyone who accepts payments with bitcoin uses something similar. Regardless, let's maybe not go as far as to say that anyone who accepts payments with bitcoin is attacking bitcoin ;) On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at 21:33, Peter Todd wrote: > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 11:34:17AM +0200, Sergej Kotliar wrote: > > This is factually incorrect and not required for us to do what we do. > > So how do you detect people sending conflicting transactions? > > -- > https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org > -- Sergej Kotliar CEO Twitter: @ziggamon www.bitrefill.com Twitter | Blog | Angellist --000000000000815a2005ebc2f985 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There are many countermeasures that can be done, we've= only implemented a subset of them as more haven't been needed.
Mainly we wait some time to make sure any conflicting transaction has= time to propagate on the network. We have well connected nodes with basic = redundancy.=C2=A0
When they are available we sometimes use extern= al block explorers for certain nice-to-have enhancements, but it's abso= lutely not required for zeroconf as they are frequently down.
I can of course only speak to our custom-built setup, presumabl= y everyone who accepts payments with bitcoin uses something similar. Regard= less, let's maybe not go as far as to say that anyone who accepts payme= nts with bitcoin is attacking bitcoin ;)

On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at = 21:33, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.= org> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 11:34:17AM +0200, Sergej Kotliar wrote:
> This is factually incorrect and not required for us to do what we do.<= br>
So how do you detect people sending conflicting transactions?

--
http= s://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org


--

Sergej Kotliar

CEO


Twitter: @ziggamon=C2= =A0


www= .bitrefill.com

Twitter | Blog | Angellist

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