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	<8AE1517F-88FB-479D-AE89-993A5545D210@jonasschnelli.ch>
	<758E3CA7-295B-4B77-BFF5-9AAE959D53EA@voskuil.org>
In-Reply-To: <758E3CA7-295B-4B77-BFF5-9AAE959D53EA@voskuil.org>
From: Blockchain Group <shekharhiran@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 21:36:43 +0530
Message-ID: <CA+9w0-73LzutZaFEQVnb=f_vSh8K8QfULh8Qc6j3x9JpnNBZHg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aaa5570574952567"
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Building a Bitcoin API and query system.
Precedence: list

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Thanks! That is what my main point is.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:10 PM Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> wrote:

> The API implementation is not what is centralizing, nor is full indexatio=
n
> non-scalable. The centralization is in not running the API from a node
> under your own control. This is of course implied by the comment, =E2=80=
=9Cwithout
> the need for syncing=E2=80=9D. In other words it is the deployment cost o=
f the node
> that is centralizing.
>
> Yet if people relied only on bitcoind and never centralized services ther=
e
> would be *no* block explorers (and no secure light wallets), because it
> does not provide remote query and does not fully index.
>
> Block explorers and light wallets are pretty useful, so presumably some
> API must provide these features (ideally with reduced deployment cost).
> That will either be centralized or decentralized services. As such it see=
ms
> wise to encourage the latter, as opposed to questioning whether there is
> any valid block explorer use case.
>
> e
>
>
> > On Aug 28, 2018, at 11:36, Jonas Schnelli via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > To give a critical viewpoint on a such API:
> >
> > Such APIs usually result in central validation, meaning that users trus=
t
> API services rather the validating their own data. It break some of the
> fundamental properties of Bitcoin (avoid trusted third parties).
> > Systems or applications depending on a full indexed blockchain (a thus
> such API) do usually scale pretty bad.
> >
> > I=E2=80=99d like to hear some concrete use-cases for a such block explo=
rer(ish)
> API.
> >
> > Thanks
> > =E2=80=94
> > Jonas
> >
> >> Am 26.08.2018 um 21:58 schrieb Blockchain Group via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
> >>
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> I am C++ & Node.js developer. I want to propose making a new Bitcoin
> API that supports fast quering of Bitcoin blocks and transactions without
> the need for syncing with all previous nodes.
> >>
> >> In a typical case where I want to build a full fleged Bitcoin explorer
> cum wallet system on my end with external APIs, I need to sync my node an=
d
> then query for the information I need to show separately. I am proposing =
a
> unified method of finding/quering the blockchain data with a standardized
> template containing minimal information about the actual mined block or
> transaction yet satify the need of what I want to query.
> >>
> >> I am working on making a template and a support mechanism on Node.js. =
I
> want to propose it as an improvement (BIP). It will be a great help to
> future web developers who want to make something similar.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Sumit Lahiri.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Thanks! That is what my main point is.=C2=A0</div><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:10 PM Eric=
 Voskuil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eric@voskuil.org">eric@voskuil.org</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The API implementation is not=
 what is centralizing, nor is full indexation non-scalable. The centralizat=
ion is in not running the API from a node under your own control. This is o=
f course implied by the comment, =E2=80=9Cwithout the need for syncing=E2=
=80=9D. In other words it is the deployment cost of the node that is centra=
lizing.<br>
<br>
Yet if people relied only on bitcoind and never centralized services there =
would be *no* block explorers (and no secure light wallets), because it doe=
s not provide remote query and does not fully index.<br>
<br>
Block explorers and light wallets are pretty useful, so presumably some API=
 must provide these features (ideally with reduced deployment cost). That w=
ill either be centralized or decentralized services. As such it seems wise =
to encourage the latter, as opposed to questioning whether there is any val=
id block explorer use case.<br>
<br>
e<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On Aug 28, 2018, at 11:36, Jonas Schnelli via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
noreferrer">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; To give a critical viewpoint on a such API:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Such APIs usually result in central validation, meaning that users tru=
st API services rather the validating their own data. It break some of the =
fundamental properties of Bitcoin (avoid trusted third parties).<br>
&gt; Systems or applications depending on a full indexed blockchain (a thus=
 such API) do usually scale pretty bad.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I=E2=80=99d like to hear some concrete use-cases for a such block expl=
orer(ish) API.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; =E2=80=94<br>
&gt; Jonas<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Am 26.08.2018 um 21:58 schrieb Blockchain Group via bitcoin-dev &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Hello everyone,<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; I am C++ &amp; Node.js developer. I want to propose making a new B=
itcoin API that supports fast quering of Bitcoin blocks and transactions wi=
thout the need for syncing with all previous nodes.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; In a typical case where I want to build a full fleged Bitcoin expl=
orer cum wallet system on my end with external APIs, I need to sync my node=
 and then query for the information I need to show separately. I am proposi=
ng a unified method of finding/quering the blockchain data with a standardi=
zed template containing minimal information about the actual mined block or=
 transaction yet satify the need of what I want to query.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; I am working on making a template and a support mechanism on Node.=
js. I want to propose it as an improvement (BIP). It will be a great help t=
o future web developers who want to make something similar.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; Sumit Lahiri.<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitc=
oin-dev" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linu=
xfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-=
dev" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfou=
ndation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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