MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAAQdECAGuScCLoG_62g6G__yiyN8KRiPDBGYJ2pDBwxRCNFtZQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAAQdECAGuScCLoG_62g6G__yiyN8KRiPDBGYJ2pDBwxRCNFtZQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: James MacWhyte <macwhyte@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 21:06:29 -0800
Message-ID: <CAH+Axy5Qa+2YHLhmnoqLR-94QmWyePcckDjj+8jGrU37q51ZCA@mail.gmail.com>
To: nothingmuch@woobling.org, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007518bf057beee20e"
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] draft proposal: change forwarding (improved
 fungibility through wallet interoperability)
Precedence: list

--0000000000007518bf057beee20e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Yuval!

Sorry for reviving an old email thread. Could you describe what the UX
would be like, or how a wallet developer might implement this? Is the
intention that someone would open their non-private wallet, and choose an
option that slowly siphons their funds into a different app? Why would
anyone want that feature?

If the user is privacy-conscious, why did they choose the non-private
wallet to begin with? Why wouldn't they just move all their funds to the
private wallet so they can continue to use just one app?

And if the user is not privacy-conscious, they would never choose to enable
this option, so why would the wallet developer even bother to implement it?

From a product standpoint, I can't see how this would be useful, and
therefore I'm not sure why it needs to be a BIP. If I'm missing something,
please let me know!

Thanks,
James


On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 10:18 AM Yuval Kogman via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I would like to propose a method based on BIP32 (and optionally BIP44) for
> improving fungibility and on chain privacy with wallets for which this is
> not a primary concern, requiring minimal changes to allow such wallets to
> safely forward change outputs to more specialized wallets. This is intended
> to complement more comprehensive proposals such as BIP79.
>
> Note that this draft is still incomplete, there are open questions about
> the particular format to use. In its current form it proposes two viable
> options (and two more are included completeness) and though I have a slight
> preference for the first option, I remain undecided given the tradeoffs,
> and so I am writing the mailing list to solicit inputs/criticism.
>
> https://gist.github.com/nothingmuch/652f3a98089a0600637eadab738b2d6a
>
> Thanks to SirMeow, Adam Ficsor, and Adam Gibson for reviewing earlier
> versions and providing valuable feedback and suggestions.
>
> Regards,
> Yuval
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

--0000000000007518bf057beee20e
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Yuval!<div><br></div><div>Sorry for reviving an old ema=
il thread. Could you describe what the UX would be like, or how a wallet de=
veloper might implement this? Is the intention that someone would open thei=
r non-private wallet, and choose an option that slowly siphons their funds =
into a different app? Why would anyone want that feature?<div><br></div><di=
v>If the user is privacy-conscious, why did they choose the non-private wal=
let to begin with? Why wouldn&#39;t they just move all their funds to the p=
rivate wallet so they can continue to use just one app?<br><br>And if the u=
ser is not privacy-conscious, they would never choose to enable this option=
, so why would the wallet developer even bother to implement it?</div><div>=
<br></div><div>From a product standpoint, I can&#39;t see how this would be=
 useful, and therefore I&#39;m not sure why it needs to be a BIP. If I&#39;=
m missing something, please let=C2=A0me know!</div><div><br></div><div>Than=
ks,</div><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmai=
l=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>James<br></div></div></div></di=
v><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On =
Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 10:18 AM Yuval Kogman via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundati=
on.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<div><br></div><div>I would lik=
e to propose a method based on BIP32 (and optionally BIP44) for improving f=
ungibility and on chain privacy with wallets for which this is not a primar=
y concern, requiring minimal changes to allow such wallets to safely forwar=
d change outputs to more specialized wallets. This is intended to complemen=
t more comprehensive proposals such as BIP79.</div><div><br></div><div>Note=
 that this draft is still incomplete, there are open questions about the pa=
rticular format to use. In its current form it proposes two viable options =
(and two more are included completeness) and though I have a slight prefere=
nce for the first option, I remain undecided given the tradeoffs, and so I =
am writing the mailing list to solicit inputs/criticism.</div><div><br></di=
v><div><a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/nothingmuch/652f3a98089a0600637ea=
dab738b2d6a" target=3D"_blank">https://gist.github.com/nothingmuch/652f3a98=
089a0600637eadab738b2d6a</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks to SirMeow=
, Adam Ficsor, and Adam Gibson for reviewing earlier versions and providing=
 valuable feedback and suggestions.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div>=
<div>Yuval</div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000007518bf057beee20e--